Alfredo Quarto, head of Mangrove Action Project, answers questions 0

Alfredo Quarto.

With what environmental organization are you affiliated?

I am executive director and cofounder of the Mangrove Action Project.

What does your organization do?

MAP is dedicated to reversing the degradation of mangrove-forest ecosystems worldwide. We promote the rights of local coastal peoples, including fishers and farmers, and encourage community-based, sustainable management of coastal resources. We are based in the U.S., with regional offices in Thailand and Indonesia, and another office opening soon in Brazil.

Mangrove forests are vital for healthy coastal ecosystems -- their salt-tolerant trees and other plant species provide nutrients for the marine environment and support immense varieties of sea life in intricate food webs. Yet for too long, these vital wetlands have been undervalued, called mosquito-infested, muddy swamps, worthless and remote. They're being lost to the charcoal and timber industries, shrimp farms, tourism, golf courses, and ill-planned urban expansion.

We've got a mangrove-y kind of love.

The loss of these wetlands has made coastal regions vulnerable to tsunami waves and hurricane winds, resulting in the loss of thousands of lives and billions of dollars in property, as tragically evidenced in the tsunami of Dec. 26, 2004, in which more than 250,000 people were killed. Most recently, it is believed that loss of coastal wetlands along the Mississippi Delta contributed to the immense devastation from Hurricane Katrina. If mangrove forests and related coastal wetlands are kept in a healthy state, they can offer a protective greenbelt to buffer against such otherwise devastating tsunamis or storm surges.

What long and winding road led you to your current position?

In the very distant past, I was an aeronautical and astronautical engineer who quit Boeing to work for $7 a day for Greenpeace in Japan.

I first stumbled upon the mangrove forests, and the shrimp aquaculture industry that threatens them, back in 1992. I was traveling in southern Thailand, visiting several fishing communities, where fisherfolk, both men and women, told me their stories.

One brave, young leader spoke quite openly about the shrimp farms that threatened the very lives and livelihoods of the fishing communities. He simply and poetically stated, "If there are no mangrove forests, then the sea will have no meaning. It is like having a tree with no roots, for the mangroves are the roots of the sea." This statement inspired the formation of Mangrove Action Project, and set me on a new course from which I seriously doubt I will ever recover!

Where were you born? Where do you live now?

Born in Long Island, N.Y., I now live in Port Angeles, Wash.

Who's the biggest pain in the ass you have to deal with?

I would say dealing with the industrial shrimp-aquaculture proponents and their supporting financial and intergovernmental institutes such as the World Bank or the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. has been a pain, as has dealing with those big-name NGOs that are willing to compromise (sometimes sell out) for the sake of finding a quick and easy solution, when too often there just isn't one.

What environmental offense has infuriated you the most?

Witnessing the destruction of vital and healthy mangrove forests that have been cleared to make shrimp ponds in Brazil, Thailand, or India, or tourist resorts and golf courses in the Bahamas or Mexico. The loss of these mangroves destroys the lives and livelihoods of countless coastal communities, placing them in peril from tsunamis and hurricanes, just so we here in the U.S., Canada, Japan, and Europe can eat cheap, farm-raised shrimp, or sunbathe or play golf on a denuded tropical beach.

Who is your environmental hero?

John Muir, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Mahatma Gandhi, Rachel Carson, Loren Eiseley, David Brower, and Masanobu Fukuoka, who all inspired my environmental mind-set.

Who is your environmental nightmare?

The Republican Party -- a fiesta of lies, environmental pillage, and war!

What's your environmental vice?

Driving a conventional car and eating store-bought bananas, but not necessarily at the same time.

What are you reading these days?

Trying to get through The Passion of the Western Mind by Richard Tarnas, which looks pretty good by its cover.

What's your favorite meal?

Lasagna.

Which stereotype about environmentalists most fits you?

Dedicated to a cause greater than the sum of its support.

What's your favorite place or ecosystem?

The temperate forest of the Pacific Northwest, along the winding banks of the Hoh or Elwha rivers on Washington's Olympic Peninsula.

What's one thing the environmental movement is doing badly, and how could it be done better?

The larger environmental organizations -- the Big Three or Five -- are becoming organizationally moribund and bureaucratic, unable to take a bottom-up approach to the issues. Losing contact with the grassroots makes for a shaky environmental stance. A tall tree without roots will not stand!

What was your favorite band when you were 18? How about now?

The Byrds. U2.

What's your favorite movie?

The Lord of the Rings.

If you could have every InterActivist reader do one thing, what would it be?

Each person should choose at least one environmental or social-justice cause and work on it with a passion and determination to correct the problem, while supporting the Mangrove Action Project with a donation. We need your support!

Death Waits for No Mangrove

Alfredo Quarto, head of Mangrove Action Project.

Where do mangroves naturally grow?    -- Loie Hayes, Boston, Mass.

Mangroves grow in the tropical and subtropical intertidal zones of sheltered bays and river mouths. These complex ecosystems are found between the latitudes of 32 degrees north and 38 degrees south, along the tropical coasts of Africa, Australia, Asia, and the Americas.

Having seen firsthand the destruction of mangrove forest for industrial shrimp farms, I have stopped eating shrimp altogether. Friends say it's OK to eat wild-caught shrimp, which supports local fishers. But even this seems to support a global trade that makes shrimp a commodity available at Sizzler. What's your take?    -- Ted Bardacke, Santa Monica, Calif.

This has been a difficult question since MAP formed 13 years ago. At that time, we wanted to tell people to not eat shrimp, period. But we came to realize that there are indeed some sustainable, less-destructive shrimp production methods that could be supported. For instance, spot prawns found in the Pacific Northwest are caught in small traps or nets lowered into the coastal waters. These do little damage to the surroundings, and if kept within reason, the fishery for spot prawns could be sustainable, though it could never fill the current level of consumer demand artificially created by the shrimp aquaculture industry.

In the Gulf of Mexico, U.S. shrimpers still go out in small commercial trawlers. Today there are many shrimpers utilizing improved bycatch-reduction devices that actually allow the heavier, larger marine species such as sea turtles and fish to escape, while keeping the majority of the shrimp caught in the nets. Also, there are trawlers that are not bottom-draggers, and these do not damage the coastal seafloor. Supporting these types of improved fishing methods is preferred because the small commercial shrimper's traditional livelihood is at stake, and their impact upon the natural ecology is much less damaging than that of the shrimp aquaculture industry, which destroys coastal habitat on a massive scale.

In the U.S., as well as abroad, there are actually promising forms of shrimp farming emerging that utilize a near-closed-system approach, whereby pond waters are recycled. There are no effluent discharges to surrounding waterways, no use of antibiotics or pesticides, no spread of viral diseases between shrimp ponds, no escapes of non-native species, etc. All of these problems and more still plague much of the shrimp-farm industry, which still operates largely as open-system production ponds.

Having offered these examples of more benevolent forms of shrimp production, I need to clarify that another important issue surrounding shrimp production is in the consumption end of the cycle. There are just too many shrimp being eaten now by too many people. In the U.S. alone, the per-capita shrimp consumption level is around four pounds of shrimp per person per year. This is nearly four times what it was around 20 years ago. Consumers in wealthy, importing nations are just consuming too much, and this is causing the rapid and too often uncontrolled expansion of production. So, we at MAP urge a reduction in shrimp consumption. Please, give shrimp a break! Avoid those "all you can eat" Red Lobster and Skipper's buffet dinners. Reduce your demand for farm-raised shrimp, and there will be an important reduction in bad practices to meet the demands of a more socially and ecologically conscientious consumer.

How do you think governments can help in the replanting of mangrove plants? Do you think it will be necessary to enforce a law prohibiting the destruction of mangrove areas?    -- Dean Lim, Flores, Indonesia

Effective enforcement of existing laws is very important, and lack of proper enforcement is one reason why so much mangrove destruction has occurred. Laws exist in the books, but in the majority of instances where mangroves are illicitly cleared, law enforcement is not being carried out. Often, the perpetrators pay bribes to key officials who conveniently turn their backs on the problem.

In some countries, such as in Thailand, those attempting to enforce the laws protecting mangroves face death threats, some of which have tragically been carried out over the years. In one of the first villages I visited along the Andaman coast of Thailand in March of 1992, I found out that two villagers had been shot and killed because they were protesting shrimp farms expanding illegally into their surrounding mangrove areas. Such violence is not unique to Thailand, but is present in Brazil today, in Bangladesh, India, Ecuador, Honduras, and in Indonesia, to name a few trouble spots.

For certain, we need government support of effective mangrove restoration and conservation.

How do you promote change in the behavior of a social institution in Thailand, given that you are in a separate country?    -- Philip

Good question, Philip. Making changes in government policies even in one's own country is difficult, but certainly more so when attempting to do so in another country. Avoid a direct, confrontational approach while raising international pressure on a certain policy or lack of enforcement of an existing regulation. Letter-writing campaigns can definitely help pressure countries sensitive to outside opinions where tourism and consumer awareness about certain export items might be seen as pressure points. With shrimp aquaculture, for instance, Mangrove Action Project raised awareness and some support when we blew the whistle on the fact that shrimp farming was destroying mangroves at a dizzying rate. Though the industry still is adversely affecting mangrove forest areas, we know that some shrimp farmers at least are more sensitive to being caught in the mangrove areas, and are actually striving to avoid them.

Another approach is strengthening local communities and NGOs. Working in collaboration with these groups and others, such as scientists or academics and local government officials, can help change the system from within. Empowering local communities and grassroots NGOs is vital for any campaign aiming at long-term, effective solutions on the ground. Otherwise, we are administering only Band-Aid fixes to a gaping wound, and these will not last.

Does your organization have any program to inform people who want to help mangrove wetlands?    -- Mohsen Ansari, Tehran, Iran

Yes, we have our biweekly, electronic newsletter, "The Mangrove Action Project News," which MAP sends out to over 3,000 email addresses in over 60 nations. It offers news updates and action alerts, informative reports, and related announcements for our general readership.

Also, MAP is cosponsoring conferences and workshops via our "In the Hands of the Fishers" program that deals with mangrove wetland conservation and local community empowerment issues.

I am a seventh-grader planning a science-fair experiment. I am interested in doing something that would show people why it is important to protect the coastlands. Any ideas? (My mom says I should stand up some paper dolls, put some plants in front of them, and point a fan in their direction; and then do the same without the plants. But I don't think that sounds very scientific.)    -- Payne McMillan, Blue Bell, Pa.

Payne, I think your mom has a good idea that really is in a sense scientific in its approach. One of the rules of sound scientific experimentation, in fact, is the ability of other experimenters to independently duplicate your experiment elsewhere to see if they can obtain the same results. Your mentioned experiment seems fitting as one that can be easily performed by others to verify a very important fact -- that a coastal fringe forest, such as mangroves, can act as a buffer against wind and waves.

Your own experiment would be a great way to demonstrate the fact that where there is such a mangrove buffer zone, those communities situated behind this protective cover are much safer than those that do not have the greenbelt to protect them.

After the tsunami in Indonesia and now Hurricane Katrina, there will be talk of mangrove restoration to protect coastlines. How can this be done in an ecologically sound and community-inclusive fashion?    -- Ken Wilson, Palo Alto, Calif.

Very relevant points, Ken, to discuss now, because we are at a sort of crossroads where we must choose the right path toward ecological recovery. In direct response to the tsunamis that killed over 250,000 people in Asia and East Africa, governments are now setting aside millions of dollars to implement massive mangrove restoration projects along the still vulnerable coastlines where mangroves have been lost or degraded by unsustainable developments. This sounds like a good plan on the surface, but there is a history of prior large-scale, top-down-managed mangrove planting projects that have cost millions of dollars and thousands of person-hours, but were dismal failures in the end. Because the methodology and planning were inadequate, the mangroves planted -- usually in mud flats or along open stretches of beach (and even sometimes in sea-grass beds!) -- failed in short order, discouraging all those who took part.

To address these serious concerns, MAP is initiating small-scale restoration projects in the tsunami-affected areas. We are working with local coastal communities and NGOs to implement an effective method of mangrove restoration that promises a more long-term, biodiverse restoration of healthy mangrove greenbelts.

Does the Mangrove Action Project have plans to be involved in the rebuilding and redevelopment of the Gulf Coast following the recent hurricanes?    -- Patrick Lowery, Los Angeles, Calif.

We have no immediate plans there, but are keenly interested in what solution will be tried in rebuilding the region. I am doubtful that any real solution will be taken, unless the old Mississippi River is allowed to run somewhat wild again, so it can deposit its sediments to rebuild the natural wetlands.

As you know, shrimp farming has devastated large mangrove areas along the northeastern coast of Brazil. Is there any chance for closer cooperation between the Mangrove Action Project and NGOs in Brazil?    -- Renè Schaerer, Prainha do Canto Verde, Brazil

Yes, there is good probability for MAP's close collaborative partnerships with several NGOs and local community representatives. We have had an active presence in forming working projects in Brazil that will be aimed at conserving and restoring the mangroves there, attempting to halt or limit the further expansion of shrimp farming, and forming stronger ties with local NGOs and communities to involve them in mangrove conservation, restoration, and resource-management decisions.

We are also planning a workshop there and hope to establish an interactive Coastal Communities Resource Center in Brazil to be tied with other CCRCs now located in Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India, Honduras, Nigeria, and Senegal. When these links are made between our network partners in the global south, MAP's work will be more effective in promoting local community involvement in comanaging and conserving the coastal regions.

I live on a magnificent mangrove estuary at the edge of a coral reef in New Caledonia, a French southwest Pacific island territory. I have been a full-time environmental campaigner here for 20 years. As somebody whose main waking hours are spent trying to save diminishing natural habitats and biodiversity from a multiplicity of human activities either tolerated or aided by a corrupt political regime, I find it extremely difficult to be at all optimistic. How do you keep going?    -- Rick Anex, Bourail, New Caledonia

Rick, I too wonder at times how we can keep going in the face of so much loss of our planet's health and vitality. Yes, I get discouraged when I see a beautiful mangrove forest destroyed in Indonesia or Thailand, India or Bangladesh, Ecuador or Honduras, Kenya or Tanzania for shrimp farms that may last only a few years before they must be abandoned because of disease problems or pollution; discouraged when I see a unique mangrove habitat on Bimini Island -- Hemingway's "Island in the Stream" -- being cleared by a wealthy American developer to place his golf course, marina, and massive tourist condo-hotel haven on the island's last stand of mangroves because a corrupt Bahamian government has sold out its people and their heritage; discouraged as well when I see callously criminal industrial oil extraction by Shell or Chevron in Nigeria's once natural-resource-rich, mangrove-laden Niger Delta, which is killing both the coastal ecology and the people, where poverty and misery follow on the heels of unregulated exploitation.

But as Ken Saro-Wiwa, a leader and martyr for the Ogoni people of Niger Delta, once stated so poignantly, before Nigeria's military tribunal hanged him on trumped-up charges, "... we confront these deadly enemies with the only weapon which they lack -- Truth ... we would have to be ready to suffer arrest, detention, imprisonment, and death, as the only alternative to the struggle is extinction ... Let the struggle continue!"

And as India's Mahatma Gandhi once stated, "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win!"

Finally, it is also for that wonderful, mysterious sense of being alive that we must struggle on. One of the preconditions of being alive is the instinct to survive. It is time we all consciously take steps to survive, form meaningful movements and grow these toward the light. It is not just for ourselves we struggle, but for future generations who will inherit the earth we leave them.

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