Pickens in a pickle
T. Boone Pickens embraces progressive policies but not progressive politicians 25
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Posted 3:51 PM on 28 Aug 2008
by Joseph Romm -
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Joseph Romm is the editor of Climate Progress and a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress.
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Delay And Deny Posted 9:55 am
28 Aug 2008
Pickens has backed himself into a cul de sac.
(1) He bet on high oil prices.
(2) He bet on wind, but forgot to RTFM -- wind is best situated in low density areas, but electricity is needed in high density areas.
However, the current grid doesn't really have national high traffic corridors (for good reasons)...so now that he's stuck with puts on wind, he wants the taxpayer to buy him out!
http://news.cnet.com/Wind-energy-bumps-into-power-grids-l ...
What kind of "Greenonomics" is this?
The only good thing about it is that he's pissed off everyone in the Republicans so he ain't getting nothing...not even some small amount of graft.
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Bob Wallace Posted 11:53 am
28 Aug 2008
Anyone who brings out the right wing trolls must be doing something right. ;o)
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Delay And Deny Posted 1:39 pm
28 Aug 2008
Check out this haunting list of Bob Wallace comments:
http://gristmill.grist.org/user/Bob%20Wallace/comments
He's obsessed about "right wing trolls" hiding in the wainscoting. Yes, they're all "after you" Bob!
No go off with your 8 x 10 glossy of T. Boone and love it to death!
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amazingdrx Posted 1:54 pm
28 Aug 2008
The negatives of his nutty support of swiftboaters and lobbyist shill politicians makes him politically untouchable. Out damn codger!
We don't want you on our side.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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Tasermons Partner Posted 2:41 pm
28 Aug 2008
That's why he lobbied sucessfully) for the Texas legislature and ERCOT to agree to build $10 billion worth of transimission capacitiy to handle the load form his and other wind farms.
Which, in turn, also allowed him to lobby ofr dual-use utility space so he could place water pipeline under the transmission lines and send billions of gallons of water
from the plains aquifers to Dallas.
All 'bout the money honey.
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GreyFlcn Posted 3:10 pm
28 Aug 2008
The whole wind+transmission thing is merely a way to:
1. Make a land grab for water rights to the Ogalalla Reservoir. (i.e. Corner the Texas water market)
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1951/
2. Promote Natural gas transportation, which he is heavily invested in. (Notice how his "Plan" was launched in July 2008. Notice the direction his stock was heading prior to July.)
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=CLNE#chart1:symbol=cln ...
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-07-0 ...
http://investors.cleanenergyfuels.com/directors.cfm
3. Which incidentally, natural gas from LNG and from Shale isn't terribly "climate friendly". And thats where a majority of it would come from.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/08/shell-in-situ-o.h ...
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/01/scientists-link.h ...
http://www.triplepundit.com/pages/shale-gas-energy-boon-o ...
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/energy/article/0,27 ...
http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Documents/upload/Oil_Sh ...
http://www.mybelmontheights.org/node/642
4.. It doesn't even really make much sense to say that Wind power would replace Natural Gas power, since on average, we generally use COAL for baseload. And Natural Gas for Peaking. And Peaking won't be going away. Especially with a highly variable source of power like Wind.
5.. There's California legislation with Picken's fingerprints all over it. It's basically a seemingly technology agnostic bill (like prop 87), which in reality is actually all about gigantic subsidies for natural gas vehicles and infrastructure, and not much else.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/podcast?id=5 ...
http://www.anthonyrubenstein.com/ARSite/LATimesOpEd.html
6. Lastly, as Joseph previously mentioned, this would be direct competition with PHEVs, that the Natural gas would be put to far better use replacing Coal.
http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/08/memo-to-t-boone-pic ...
____
Now, no doubt, this gets a lot of media support for Wind. But lets not get beyond ourselves and start acting like there aren't any huge ulterior motives at play that totally defeat the purpose of dealing with climate change.
-David Ahlport
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GreyFlcn Posted 3:14 pm
28 Aug 2008
It's really no better than diesel. Infact, it's slightly worse.
http://greyfalcon.net/svlglca.png
http://greyfalcon.net/electriccars2.png
Shale gas, and imported LNG on the other hand....
-David Ahlport
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amazingdrx Posted 4:27 pm
28 Aug 2008
Water, natural gas, and pipeline routes monopolies disguised as renewable energy and natural gas to replace imported oil. I think a good case could be made that Pickens is pushing wind as a fraudulent loss leader.
If this rat was an environmentalist now, why is he still funding corporatist lobbyist linked politicians?
Targeting natural gas fuel conversion to long haul trucks and trains instead of cars would tend to kill the diversionary, delaying effect on plugin hybrid cars. maybe that part of his plan and wind buildout could be saved, but not under his control.
The best thing would be to prosecute him for insider trading and monopolistic business practice. Ulikely you say? Remember this, under Bush nonenforcement, fellers like this have gone hog wild, maybe failing to cover their illegalities? Leaving a new Attorney general and FTC head to get easy convictions of many many bush era crooks like Pickens.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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MAD MAC Posted 6:10 pm
28 Aug 2008
"We don't want you on our side."
You need everybody on your side you can get - particularly people who have access to billions of dollars which they can invest in your plan.
The Republicans still have a large base of support in this country. That is not going to change in your lifetime. So you had better figure out how to work with them and move them on issues you consider critical - or you will lose in your carbon objective.
Do you want results or not? Because you can't get them by simply declaring conservatives as "the enemy". That is a formula for failure.
Victory in Pattani
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BlackBear Posted 7:19 pm
28 Aug 2008
My personal favorite vision of the next generation of power production is a cluster of VAWTs on every available rooftop.
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Russ Posted 8:10 pm
28 Aug 2008
http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/columns/TimothyCarney/T ...
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_25/b40890 ...
These provide the best account of Boone's predatory water/land grab in Texas, for which his wind farm is a fig leaf.
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vakibs Posted 8:54 pm
28 Aug 2008
Apart from that, there should be no delusions about pickens. He is a master trickster. If you take a thermometer and measure his love for the environment, it will read negative farenheit.
Along with the rest of the fossil fuel crowd, we have a dangerous guy here. One should always look out at the subsidies that he wants to gobble up from the federal government. He might turn out to be a bigger con than the huge agro-businesses which grows corn.
Simply, let's use pickens but never let him use us.
Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.
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GreyFlcn Posted 10:24 pm
28 Aug 2008
But from a climate perspective, the real terrifying part is the natural gas end of his argument.
-David Ahlport
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Delay And Deny Posted 11:50 pm
28 Aug 2008
http://hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/al-go ...
Neither Al Gore nor T. Boone Pickens mentioned hydrogen cars in their plans to address America's energy crisis.
Therefore, I issued the Hydrogen Education Challenge to Al Gore and T. Boone Pickens, so they can learn more about hydrogen cars. I am posting one hydrogen fact for them to read each weekday over ten weeks between August 4th and October 10th on the Hydrogen Discoveries blog.
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amazingdrx Posted 12:30 am
29 Aug 2008
Confiscate his wealth to pay down the huge national debt he helped create. He deserves about 100 times the sentence Martha Stewart got.
That horrible Noonan was on MSNBC this morning yammering about big government and spending and socialism in Obama's speech. Meanwhile her "business expert" GOP has bankrupted this nation, put us into almost incomprehensible debt to China and Saudi Arabia.
Answer to these charges you hacks. Your Reagan revolutionary heroes have sold US out to the worst multinational corporations and kleptocracies on the planet.
Noonan, Martha's cell is ready for you, got any insider hedge fund trading we haven't heard about?
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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Bob Wallace Posted 1:14 am
29 Aug 2008
Be stupid and punish them when they do something right if you wish. Do your (misguided) part to retard moment toward solutions.
(Personally I'm not going to worry about Pickens plan for natural gas for personal transportation. I just don't think the market will make that choice once we get viable PHEVs. Pickens seems to have already given up that part of his plan as he learns more about other possibilities.)
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MAD MAC Posted 1:40 am
29 Aug 2008
We have this thing in the US called due process. Now, last time I heard Pickens wasn't even indicted for anything. How about if we confiscate your wealth - such as it is - and use it to pay down the national debt.
You can't confiscate peoples wealth in the US. And in countries where you can - they are disaster areas - ecologically and otherwise.
Wake up for Christ Sakes.
Victory in Pattani
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amazingdrx Posted 2:10 am
29 Aug 2008
I would not recomend that though, even for thieves like Pickens. Instead use anti-trust laws to investigate his cornering of various markets in water, natural gas, pipeline routes, oil, and the bribes he paid to get that all done.
Enforcement of laws already on the books against corporate monpoly gaming is way past due. Teddy Roosevelt's spirit needs to fill this new administration with law enforcement zeal.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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Biodiversivist Posted 3:26 am
29 Aug 2008
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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Biodiversivist Posted 3:36 am
29 Aug 2008
We can't always count on the market to kill bad ideas if the government continues to prop them up in the name of pork. It would not surprise me to see the government start to prop up natural gas cars or even hydrogen in the same manner and for similar reasons.
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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MAD MAC Posted 5:02 am
29 Aug 2008
"I would not recomend that though, even for thieves like Pickens. Instead use anti-trust laws to investigate his cornering of various markets in water, natural gas, pipeline routes, oil, and the bribes he paid to get that all done.
Enforcement of laws already on the books against corporate monpoly gaming is way past due. Teddy Roosevelt's spirit needs to fill this new administration with law enforcement zeal."
Victory in Pattani
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GreyFlcn Posted 5:59 am
29 Aug 2008
Actually, thats the problem.
When it comes from Shale, it might actually be worse than Coal.
And the majoriety of the natural gas that Picken's etc is banking on would come from Shale.
Not to mention CH4 leaks from shale formations are 23x more potent as a GHG than CO2. And the study there mentioned that Shale formations are the reason for rapid release of methane and CO2, similar to arctic tundra.
_
In short, this whole windmills thing could merely be greenwashing of a highly carbon intensive approach to transportation.
-David Ahlport
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sebas1313 Posted 6:44 am
29 Aug 2008
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Alex519 Posted 10:49 am
29 Aug 2008
Here's a message for Joseph Romm straight from a Gristmill blog posted less than 48 hours ago
by David Roberts: "It is not good political strategy to erect high walls around your issue and keep people out. I am sick of purity tests. Yay for T. Boone."
Roberts is right. All this nonsense about progressive politicians, campaign contributions and other petty considerations are not going to reduce our reliance on oil imports by a single drop. The Pickens Plan will.
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Antoinette Posted 10:56 am
29 Aug 2008
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