Robert Peoples, carpet recycler, answers Grist’s questions 0

Robert Peoples.

What work do you do?

I run a nonprofit called the Carpet America Recovery Effort, or CARE. I serve as the executive director. I am also the director of sustainability for the Carpet and Rug Institute. Finally, I manage an environmental engineering and consulting company in Florida.

I am a Ph.D. chemist by training. The reason I share this is to establish the idea that I try to deal in facts and information. I love to share and teach. I am not a salesman or a marketing guy. I always tell my audiences that I am a human being just like them. In other words, I breathe the same air, drink the same water, and eat the same foods. I have as big an interest in not fouling those life-giving nutrients as they do!

How does it relate to the environment?

The mission of CARE is to develop market-based solutions for the reuse and recycling of post-consumer carpet. Last year we reported that 261 million pounds of old carpet were diverted from landfills. You can go here to learn more about where this is done and the outlets for these valuable recovered materials.

What are you working on at the moment? Any major projects?

Oh yeah, two biggies. Finding outlets specifically for carpet made from nylon 66 face fiber, and trying to convince people to buy products made from post-consumer carpet -- creating demand to justify collections.

It is also probably worth pointing out that this is a big project with no simple answers. So, it really is a team effort. I am very fortunate to work with some very talented people. Also, I have found the carpet industry as a whole to be a very forward-looking group, open to ideas and possibilities. I think this is one of the reasons we have such good working relationships with many states and the U.S. EPA.

How do you get to work?

I am on the road quite a bit, but often telecommute when not traveling. I love to use the transit system in major cities if available. It is like an adventure to me. Some are pretty good. I do recall the time I sat on broken-down transit in sight of the airport control tower while I missed my flight and the next two after it until they finally got us up and running again. That was not much fun! When I have to drive, I use my Mini Cooper.

What long and winding road led you to your current position?

After 23 years in a large chemical enterprise (Monsanto and later its spin-off Solutia), I retired due to a bankruptcy. In the mid-'90s, I was director of technology for nylon and had a team of engineers and chemists working on carpet recycling. This was way before it (or sustainability) was popular. Subsequently we went through a spin-off from the parent, and all work stopped.

A rug's life.

Photo: iStockphoto

A few years later, I was asked to develop a strategy for recycling for the carpet business team. That resulted in a lot of time in the field, talking to entrepreneurs and getting involved in the original discussions and negotiations that led to a memorandum of understanding between the EPA, about 13 states at that time, and the carpet industry to enter into a voluntary partnership to keep post-consumer carpet out of landfills. I was personally very heavily involved in efforts to help get CARE started and moving forward. That resulted in the offer to become the first executive director of CARE when I left Solutia in December of 2003. In 2004, I was named the first CARE Person of the Year, an honor for which I am particularly proud since it was bestowed by my peers and national colleagues.

Where were you born? Where do you live now?

I was born in Perth Amboy, N.J. I currently reside in Pensacola, Fla., and spent quite a bit of time in Atlanta and Dalton, Ga., when not on the road promoting carpet reclamation.

What has been the worst moment in your professional life to date?

Learning that a great 100-year-old corporation was being dismantled and destroyed by a Wall Street-type lawyer. It adversely affected the lives of tens of thousands of people, many my friends.

What's been the best?

I think there are really two. The first was being named as the CARE Person of the Year. The second, and much more impactful, was becoming the executive director of CARE where I could fulfill a mission that I am passionate about. We are building a brand new industry in the United States. How often these days can someone say that?

What environmental offense has infuriated you the most?

I think what is happening in China is really terrible. Given what the world leaders and scientific community know about environmental stewardship, it is a crime, and aggressive steps by the international community should be instituted to allow progress, but at the same time avoid and stop this global climatic tragedy.

Who is your environmental hero?

I have really been impressed by what the U.S. Green Building Council has been able to accomplish through its LEED initiative. While not everyone may agree, this effort has brought a ton of focus to the green-building effort on a global basis. It is a living, organic system that is evolving -- a very powerful model based on nature's own systems thinking. On an individual basis, I have been inspired by Paul Hawken and the big man himself, Albert Einstein. I particularly like Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

What's your environmental vice?

Spending too much time working on CARE and other environmental initiatives. I have a hard time saying no!

How do you spend your free time (if you have any)? Read any good books lately?

I occasionally fit in a round of golf. I love to read. My recent reads are Lives Per Gallon by Terry Tamminen, The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell, The Change Function by Pip Coburn, and The World is Flat by Thomas L. Friedman. If it relates to science or medicine, it is on my list. Michael Crichton and Robin Cook are also favorites.

What's your favorite meal?

Anything pasta with a good red wine.

Which stereotype about environmentalists most fits you?

Committed, passionate, and dedicated.

What's your favorite place or ecosystem?

The beach! It is refreshing to watch a sunrise and particularly relaxing to watch the sun set over the Gulf of Mexico. When I work at the beach it does not seem like work at all and it's inspirational.

If you could institute by fiat one environmental reform, what would it be?

Make the financial investments necessary to enable true recycling to take place. If we had just a fraction of the money wasted by our government (both federal and state) we would have a completely different future. How about campaign finance reform -- 120 days of campaigning. All the money wasted could be put to a much better use! Think of all the people running and how much they will spend without even a whisper of a chance of winning a nomination.

Who was your favorite musical artist when you were 18? How about now?

In college it was Emerson, Lake & Palmer and The Beach Boys. Today, it is anything early '70s -- sure beats the rap crap of today. Check out the musical Jersey Boys -- now that's music.

What's your favorite TV show?

I have all but given up on TV. I can't stand spending 30 to 40 percent of an hour listening to commercials. Movie? Braveheart and Bicentennial Man. Robin Williams is insane but brilliant.

Which actor would play you in the story of your life?

Russell Crowe.

If you could have every InterActivist reader do one thing, what would it be?

Make a $10 donation, and ask one friend to do the same, to the CARE organization to help foster our mission of landfill diversion of post-consumer carpet. We'll acknowledge the total gift on the CARE website.

What comes from a carpet when it is broken down for recycling? What is done with the recycled materials? Are there waste products left over? If there are, what is done with them? -- Carla Yamauchi, Tucson, Ariz.

Robert Peoples, executive director of the Carpet America Recovery Effort

Carpet is a highly engineered and complex product. It is built to last, and that is what makes it so challenging to recycle. Today, about 5 percent of all carpet is recycled. The value is in the thermoplastic face fiber, which is made from oil. The face fiber and backing can be used directly in some products like railroad ties, composite lumber, and shingles. In other cases, the backing alone can be used in cement kilns, where it serves two purposes: the petroleum-based portion contributes energy for the production of the cement, and the residual calcium carbonate becomes part of the clinker, or raw cement material. In some cases, the separated backing must be sent to the landfill because we do not have enough outlets for it today. Technology is advancing rapidly, and there will be several new recovery operations in place by year's end to further expand the growth of reclamation and recovery of these valuable materials. You can download the 2006 CARE Annual Report [PDF] for a more comprehensive analysis.

Which is better: carpet made with a greater amount of recycled content, or carpet made with a backing that can be removed and recycled? There are many choices available, but as with any long-term commitment, I want to choose an option that is environmentally friendly, won't wear out quickly, won't incur replacement or recycling fees that aren't included in the price of the carpet, and is allergen-free. If I was speaking to a LEED expert, what would they recommend? -- Sarah Brylinsky, Ithaca, N.Y.

Carpet tile is becoming very popular for a variety of reasons, but broadloom is still the predominate choice. Virtually any high-quality, name-brand carpet will give you the durability and service life you expect. Now, how to decide which is the greenest? There is no simple answer here. We are very early in the process of understanding how to make any product green. The best approach is a full life-cycle analysis (LCA), a very costly and time-consuming process. The procedure of conducting LCAs is not an exact science. My best advice is to ask your retailer the very questions you have asked me. Does it have recyclable content? Is it recyclable or designed to be recycled in the future? How will the process work when I call you five years from now? Is there an upfront cost? Different producers will have different programs and answers to these questions. Carpet is actually an excellent choice for someone who has asthma and allergies, based on a significant body of work done both in the U.S. and internationally. You want to look for a carpet that carries the Carpet and Rug Institute Green Label or Green Label Plus certification -- very important for indoor air-quality considerations. You may also want to check out the Carpet and Rug Institute's new Seal of Approval program, which deals with the chemicals and equipment used to clean carpet and the technicians who perform the work.

What is your opinion of what Ray Anderson is doing with Interface? Do you see him as a competitor? Are you skeptical that a corporate CEO has the best interests of the environment in mind? Is there more that he could be doing that CARE already does? -- George Beckingham, Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada

Ray is a visionary. There is no reason a CEO cannot have the best intentions for the environment and still run a very profitable company. In fact, I believe this will become more important in the future. Keep in mind there are many ways to solve the challenging problems all industries face and there is no single best answer. All carpet companies today are stepping up to the challenge. I have personally estimated that the carpet industry has invested almost $400 million in the last 10 years in sustainability initiatives including new plants, new technologies, new chemistries, and new products specifically designed to be recycled at the end of their design life. Over 65 percent of this is in the last five years. A little research will show this industry is regarded by many as a leader in the environmental-stewardship arena, and I am lucky to be able to play a small part.

Is there a directory available of carpet recycling centers by state? I live in New Jersey and my sanitation company will not take carpet. My township will take it, but I'm not sure what they'll do with it. -- Joseph Beetar, Schooleys Mountain, N.J.

Go here and click on your state, and it will expand showing your options. You have a major recycler in New Jersey near the Newark airport. Give them a call and ask for Peter.

Concerning carpet collection and recycling, would you rather government-purchasing contracts require carpet companies to have a high level of financial support of CARE's efforts (or take back their own carpet), or would you like all manufacturers to finance CARE according to their fair share? -- Anonymous, New York

CARE is a voluntary nonprofit whose mission is the development of market-based solutions for the reuse and recycling of post-consumer carpet. My preference is voluntary funding, and we do have a scale that is proportional to sales. It has worked well to date, with membership expanding every year. I do think having reclamation specified as part of the bid package will help the cause. However, I believe the single most important development is the creation of demand for products that contain post-consumer carpet. If there is no demand for the products, there is no reason to collect them. A good example might be carpet cushion. The largest recycler of post-consumer carpet in the world is Los Angeles Fiber in California. One of their major products is 100 percent post-consumer-carpet-derived cushion or padding. Instead of buying rebond foam pad (the stuff with all the colored pieces), ask for fiber pad with post-consumer recycled content. This could have a huge impact on our ability to divert carpet from landfills.

Florida is currently working on a project to assist local governments in developing post-disaster recovery plans. Managing debris is, of course, a major first step in recovery. Many local governments have begun working with sanitation companies to plan for debris management, including planning to recover and recycle reusable building materials. Have you thought about approaching local governments with options for carpet recycling in this case? -- Allison Boyd, Jupiter, Fla.

I must tell you that I lived through Hurricane Ivan in Pensacola, Fla., and I worked very hard on recycling carpet after Hurricane Katrina. The biggest problem we ran into was contamination (oil, fecal, etc.). No one was interested in handling this material. In addition, once carpet is wet it is much more expensive to transport and basically cannot be recycled any longer. Perhaps in the future, new technology will allow us to handle such materials, but we are just not there yet.

As an architect, I see many carpet manufacturers now contracting to recycle their own products. If the installation is large enough (several thousand square feet), they'll include recycling of existing carpet in their bids to replace. But what of the small-scale office, the renovation project with a couple hundred square feet of carpet? The homeowner who is simply uncovering wood floors, not replacing carpet? How can these folks get access to viable recycling? -- Peter Saucerman, Sacramento, Calif.

We are building a brand-new industry in the United States, and the fact is we just do not operate on a scale that lets us handle every option today. There are a few centers where people can drop off their old carpet for free or at a small charge, and some who will actually come pick it up for a fee. These options are the exception today. We hope we can learn from them and build justification to expand in the future. It may be possible to approach recyclers in your area and see how you can get on a program. Work with a retailer to place a covered collection bin which can be hauled off when full.

Carpet recycling and waste diversion make sense. I've read, though, that carpets (and other materials) may contain formaldehyde (a possible carcinogen) and off-gassing adhesives; perhaps older carpets contained even more bad stuff. The U.S. EPA says, "Carpet can also act as a 'sink' for chemical and biological pollutants including pesticides, dust mites, and fungi." How safe can products made from these materials be? How safe are the workplaces where these materials are processed? -- Doug Grinbergs, Boulder, Colo.

Formaldehyde is not used in the production of carpet and has not been for more than 20 years. There is a lot of old information out there and it can be hard to sort the truth from the myths. I can tell you factually that carpet is one of the lowest emitters of VOCs of any product placed inside the home or office today. Virtually every carpet manufactured in the U.S. is certified under the CRI Green Label or Green Label Plus program. The idea that carpet can be a sink (or a filter) is, in my mind, a good one. Once these ubiquitous materials find their way into your home (via air currents, clothes, shoes, dirt, etc.) two things can happen. You can trap them at the entry point when they become lodged and trapped in carpet or rug fibers where they remain out of the breathing zone until properly cleaned (using Seal of Approval chemicals and equipment, Green Label vacuums, and trained technicians -- just like you change your furnace filter). Or, they fall upon hard surfaces where they can be continually disturbed and resuspended into the air you breathe. My point is, you can't stop this exposure from happening, but you can trap and minimize the path to your nose! There is independent research in peer-reviewed literature that supports this notion.

What kind of equipment, etc., does a company need to start doing carpet recycling? What else goes into the setup of a facility? -- Margie Campaigne, Rochester, N.Y.

The basics are a minimum of 10,000 square feet of warehouse space, a baler, and an identification device. The investment varies with your location and exact equipment you specify. If you want to get more detailed information please go to the CARE website and submit a request for information.

We are building a green addition to our home. What carpeting do you recommend for this project besides wool? -- Jacqueline Dann, Highland Park, Ill.

There are many good choices today to pick from. I cannot make a specific recommendation, but if you go to the website for the leading carpet manufacturers and type "green carpet" into their search option, you should begin to get a good feel for what's available. There are a whole lot more choices in the commercial line of carpet today than residential. That will be changing with time. You may want to investigate carpet tiles as well. These products are becoming very popular.

Recent reports show what a nuisance the zillions of plastic water bottles we use daily are becoming, at the same time that plastic recyclers are desperate just to find enough used plastic to run their businesses. Seems like we need to have a bottle bill for water bottles, but such bills have been so tough to pass all over the country. Can you imagine a win-win situation that would also satisfy bottlers and grocers, who traditionally oppose such ideas? -- Erik Hoffner, Great Barrington, Mass.

Tough question! My first thought is I am not smart enough to offer a solution. I do know that 75 percent of all bottles go to the landfill. Many cities are looking at single-stream recycling options to make it easier on residents and setting up a sorting facility that can deliver the economy of scale necessary to make the economics work. If we had not lost confidence in our public water supply years ago, maybe we would not be in this fix. Perhaps if we can get back to basics, we can reverse the trend. Bottles have an intrinsic material value. Maybe there is a way to tap into this potential. By the way, the carpet industry is the largest recycler of plastic bottles back into carpet and carpet backing.

A breed rescue group I volunteer with uses carpet pieces (cut from remnant rolls) in kennels, and when they get dirty we'd like to hose them off and recycle them, but can't find any place in the Cleveland, Ohio, area to take them. Any ideas? -- Kate Hathway, Cleveland, Ohio

This is a challenge since you are talking about fecal matter and urine contamination. At this time I hate to say it, but your best and only choice is landfill.

I work in Austin, Texas, and my small law firm will be replacing our carpet in a year (about 2,500 square feet of carpet). Unfortunately, I didn't find a carpet recycling outfit in Austin on CARE's website. Is there anything we can do with our carpet to keep it out of the landfill? Also, do you have any recommendations for a website or source for carpet manufacturers that are environmentally safe -- no VOCs, unsafe glues and backings, etc.? I've been dreading getting new carpet because we're in a downtown office building and cannot open windows to vent any off-gassing. -- Lisa Meacham, Austin, Texas

You may want to ask your carpet supplier what options he can offer when it comes to recycling. You can specify in your contract that you want the old carpet recycled. As for websites, I encourage you to explore each manufacturer's website for details on their offerings of green carpet, adhesives, etc., since each is different. You should make sure your carpet and adhesive carries the CRI Green Label or Green Label Plus sticker to ensure the best VOC performance. Ask your installer to roll out the carpet for 48 to 72 hours prior to installation if you cannot ventilate. Also arrange for the installer to install on a Friday after work and make sure the air-conditioning system will be running over the weekend.

I am in a house that already has carpet. I wonder if it off-gasses weirdo chemicals that endocrine disrupt and so forth. Someone mentioned houseplants as a good low-tech air filter. Any comments on whether normal carpet is good for our feet? -- Theo Talcott, Manchester, Vt.

Carpet is one of the lowest off-gassing materials you can put inside your home. In addition, after the first 304 days, off-gassing drops to essentially zero. As for the feet issue, this makes me think of why I like carpet: warm underfoot, quiets the room, and comfortable to walk upon. It is also like a big filter helping keep the air cleaner.

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