Umbra on organic pork 19

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1. 

   amc89 Posted 1:33 am
   15 Aug 2007

   I love pigsPigs are really the coolest of animals. Visit a farmed animal sanctuary like Poplar Spring Animal Sanctuary in the DC area or Farm Sanctuary in upstate New York and spend a little time rubbing their bellies and you'll see what I mean. They're like pink dogs that like mud.
   I think Umbra's point about eating less pork should be noted. It's unlikely current demand could be met with only small farmer produced pork. If we want free-range, humane certified and small farmer produced meat to be the norm, there has to be a reduce in demand. But the meat industry lobbying and advertizing campaigns make people think they have to consume it everyday to be big and strong.  

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2. 

   latenac Posted 3:35 am
   15 Aug 2007

   CSAThe other advantage to non-factory farmed pork is it  tastes better. Current FF pigs are bred to be low fat which renders them difficult to cook well and remain tasty. Smaller producers raise forgotten breeds which helps to book biodiversity and thus tastier.
   My CSA raises pork. Pasture raised is probably the term you'd want to look for.
   http://www.jerichosettlersfarm.com/meatsandeggs/pork.html ...

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3. 

   sindark Posted 6:40 am
   15 Aug 2007

   Rolling Stone article on industrial pig farmingIn case anyone doubts the statement that "Commercial pork production is a nasty, polluting operation and inhumane to the animals" this article may be informative:
   http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/20/big_factory_pig_farm ...

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4. 

   coffeepot12 Posted 7:14 am
   15 Aug 2007

   organic porkisn't that an oxy mornon??  How can something that is unclean / is a 4 legged garbage disposal/land clearing animal be placed under the  same label as "healthy organic foods"??
   Did I miss something???The pig is farm equipment...not food...I am really shocked at how many people admit to consuming pig products!!
   It is unclean, the Bible listed it as one of many animals man is not to eat....
   Last week I learned that there are pork products in the manufacture of marshmallows and gummy worms!!!
   How is a person to be healthy today if they sneak garbage into our foods??  

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5. 

   rcphillips Posted 8:05 am
   15 Aug 2007

   re: coffeepot12"Last week I learned that there are pork products in the manufacture of marshmallows and gummy worms!!!
   How is a person to be healthy today if they sneak garbage into our foods?? "
   stop eating marshmallows and gummy worms. your health will increase astronomically.
   But seriously...the organic designation has more to do with how the animal or plant is handled, grown, fed, etc., than with the meta-question of whether or not the animal is "clean or unclean".

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6. 

   zibby Posted 8:29 am
   15 Aug 2007

   Pork import/exportThe Animal Protection Institute recently released an investigation into the transport of farmed animals as the US has virtually no regulation of animal transport.
   What they found was pretty horrible. In fact, they followed one truck full of pigs, with no food, water or rest, from the midwest to somewhere south of MEXICO CITY! Investigators were told American producers send the pigs south for slaughter because it's cheaper labor. Then, the pork that was once a pig, is imported back into the U.S.
   check it out:
   
   http://www.api4animals.org/a6a_transport.php
   Eating pork just plain sucks.

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7. 

   Green Granny Posted 10:56 am
   15 Aug 2007

   My CSAMy CSA does not raise pork -- just dairy cows and chickens (mostly for the eggs) in addition to a wide variety of veggies.  There is a farmer at my local farmer's market who raises "organic" pigs, but I refuse to buy anything from her(animal or vegetable).  First, she will not disclose how the pigs are housed and what a given "pig day" looks like.  She also refuses to disclose who slaughters them and how its done.  Third, she does not allow customers to visit her farm "for health and safety reasons." (She won't even show pictures of her farm)  All these things combine to be big red flags for me.
   I don't think pigs are naturally dirty.  When I was a little girl, my father and I used to regularly walk past a pasture that had a few trees and a bunch of pigs.  I called them "the green pigs" because they were so clean that, at the right angle, their tummies reflected the grass beneath them and they looked green!
   Then again, when I was in a so-called 3rd world country, I witnessed semi-wild pigs eating raw sewage and garbage in the ditches along the road.  Yuck.
   Pigs are smarter than dogs -- according to some scientists and an aquaintance of mine who has a pet pot belly.  I never ever eat dogs.  I can't really bring myself to eat pigs.  Add to it all, I read Charlotte's Web in elementary school.
   Any more, the older I get, the more I care about how the food I eat was cared for.  I want my veggies grown locally and "organically" in healthy soil.  I want my milk products to come from "happy", healthy, non-anti-biotic-ed, grass fed/pastured  cows who I can drive by/visit.  Whether or not "we are what we eat", I want "happy" and healthy food only. To me, that's what sustainable and environmental means.

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8. 

   akbeancounter Posted 11:52 am
   15 Aug 2007

   You Got your Pigs' Feet in my Gummi Worms!Coffeepot said:
   
   It is unclean, the Bible listed it as one of many animals man is not to eat....
   That's a tricky matter.  Throughout the Good Book, there are verses that suggest that the restrictions had been lifted, while other verses indicate that they still apply.  Judaism and Islam, as you probably know, still hold pigs in ill regard.  A few highly-contradictory resources: [1] (pdf), [2], [3], [4].
   Last week I learned that there are pork products in the manufacture of marshmallows and gummy worms!!!
   I assume you're referring to gelatin.  You get gelatin by boiling collagen; in the case of packaged foods, it's usually derived from animal skin and bones.  Yum!
   How is a person to be healthy today if they sneak garbage into our foods??  
   Eat food that you can easily identify.  However much junk they spray on an apple, it's probably more wholesome than a Gummi Worm.
   -- A.

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9. 

   kaivalya Posted 5:01 pm
   15 Aug 2007

   uncleanOf course pigs are not unclean. In the Bible unclean in this case means ritually unclean. Or do you think a horse or a swan is unclean? It's worth reading all of the Mosaic rules.
   
   The way we "produce" pork is a different story.

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10. 

    latenac Posted 10:20 pm
    15 Aug 2007

    for Green GrannyUgh,I would never buy anything local from a farmer who wouldn't let me visit their farm either. Most farmers I know here in Vermont are more than happy for you to visit their farms and look around. It can be expensive to officially be organic so there are a lot of unofficial organic farms here that raising things I think in far more organic conditions than some of the big industrial organic companies.
    Coffeepot12, if you're upset about pigs in your gummi worms and marshmallows, you should probably know gelatin can come from almost any animal and often does, that includes beef and horses, too. And frankly if you don't see any irony in questioning how healthy and organic pigs are and question how healthy things can be while at the same time complaining about pork products in your gummi worms and marshmallows, well I think you have other things you should worry about.
    As for whether a pig is clean or not the ones I see on the organic farms are not dirty smelly animals at all. I pick my flowers, peas, herbs and tomatoes not all that far from one of their pens and am never overcome by any smell.
    As for eating pork, well frankly I can only defer to Tony Bourdain, the pig is a magical and tasty animal. Or maybe I should defer to Homer S. mmmm bacon.

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11. 

    pansy girl Posted 12:19 am
    16 Aug 2007

    Suggested readingIf you are looking for an intelligent look at this issue, or a book to rock your world, I highly recommend  a trip to your local library and check out Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals,and the Call to Mercy written by Matthew Scully. It's not an easy read, yet it's worth the effort if you are sincerely interested in learning more about this issue. He examines the current system of industrial farming with an alarming clarity and compassion without being reactionary.
    Here's a poem by Blake that makes me think of today's industrial farms: "Robin red breast in a cage sets all heaven in a rage."

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12. 

    Gardiner Posted 12:32 am
    16 Aug 2007

    Happy PigsI am a devote carnivore, and two years ago I resolved to eat only happy animals for their welfare and mine. For pigs that means they get to root around in fresh dirt, have enough space so they can crap in a separate corner from where they eat and sleep, and have a nice cool wallow for hot days. It is also important to me that the feed is organic and   no antibiotics are use prophylactically.
    In my opinion organic standards come up WAY shot of ensuring happy pigs. They can be confined on crowded concrete pads, and farrowed in tinny sheds. As others have said getting to know your farmer is the only way to ensure happy animals. I don't think small scale is an unrealistic way of feeding America. Small scale diversified farms are a more productive way of working the land --it just takes more manpower. So we just need to pay marginally more for the food we eat.
    
    

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13. 

    amc89 Posted 12:54 am
    16 Aug 2007

    Pig virus in ChinaThis was in the NY Times today:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/16/business/worldbusiness/ ...
    "Virus Spreading Alarm and Pig Disease in China
    
    CHENGDU, China, Aug. 9 -- A highly infectious swine virus is sweeping China's pig population, driving up pork prices and creating fears of a global pandemic among domesticated pigs.
    In Gu Yi, a village in Sichuan Province, a veterinarian's banner claims he can cure blue-ear disease, but the virus still spreads.
    
    Animal virus experts say Chinese authorities are playing down the gravity and spread of the disease."
    As the demand for red meat and poultry in China continues to increase, factory farming will dominate and we'll likely be seeing more of these horrific viruses. There are absolutely no official animal welfare regulations for farm animals in China.  It's unfortanate that China is taking up the unhealthy and dangerous western habitat of eating large quantities of meat on a regular basis.
    
    

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14. 

    jaborganic Posted 2:56 am
    16 Aug 2007

    OrganicMy question to all this organic meat and animals.
    
    Why would you deny animals the use of antibiotics, if we take them when we are sick?

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15. 

    Gardiner Posted 4:36 am
    16 Aug 2007

    super bugsTo the best of my knowledge no humans are taking antibiotics to allow them to live in conditions that would otherwise kill them. Dosing animals with drugs to allow them to live in squalid conditions is cruel, and could have terrible consequences for public health if we start to develop super resistant bugs.

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16. 

    amc89 Posted 5:01 am
    16 Aug 2007

    Giving antibiotics to healthy animalsI don't think there are any mainstream groups that advocate not giving antibiotics to animals on farms that are actually sick, but when the antibiotics are given routinely to all animals, healthy or sick, to prevent them from getting sick in the stressful, cramped conditions they're kept in, that's not only bad for animal welfare but also dangerous to human health and safety. When all animals on farms are given antibiotics, this is called "Non-Therapeutic Antibiotic Use".  Read more at this factsheet:
    Human Health Implications of Non-Therapeutic Antibiotic Use
    
    http://www.hsus.org/farm/resources/research/pubhealth/hum ...
    One whole category of drugs to fight influenza has been made useless because of it's over-use by Chinese poultry factory farmers.  

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17. 

    Riverdance Farmer Posted 5:45 am
    16 Aug 2007

    Antibioticsin reply to jaborganic.. Many of us that eat and/or grow organic choose not to use antibiotics in our own lives unless the health situation is dire. I have been able to allow my body to fight off sinus infections without antibiotics for over eight years by eating well, taking specific herbs, natural anti-oxidants and anti-swelling compounds such as grape seed extract and flax oil. I get a little extra rest when I feel the sinus pressure, drink plenty of fluids and stay out of crowds. In organic w/ humane systems, the animals are enabled to heal by many of those same principles. Within a mega-CAFO, that is usually not practiced.
    
    If an illness or infection is life threatening, and not just inconvenient, then antibiotics are an important option. Most organic farmers have areas to rear their antibiotic-treated animals separately during the transition time period or sell, give or transfer them to a non-certified livestock facility.
    
    Again, many of us do not choose to use antibiotics as soon or as often (if ever) as the general population. That is what I expect from the meat, milk or eggs that I choose to buy and eat.  

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18. 

    jaborganic Posted 1:15 pm
    16 Aug 2007

    AntibioticsIt sounds as if people should be looking at buying local and knowing their farmer.  My family and I raise and sell our own food and meat.  I'm not against stopping the use of antibiotics in feeds, but saying one can not give a single shot to an animal and continue to call it organic is not in the best interest of the animals.  If people were more concerned where they buy their food, we would not be in this position.  Before anyone writes to bash me, I farmed for 20 years, have a degree in animal science.
    
    

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19. 

    VTcowpower Posted 1:16 am
    17 Aug 2007

    Living Piggy LivesWhile organic foods are desriable, we have found that looking for 'locally produced free range meats' is far more important for the life and health of the animal.  Organic refers more to what the animals are fed and not really how they are treated.  Not everyone has the luxury of visiting the source of their food - to see how it is produced - but the internet is a great tool for small producers to communicate with their customers.  Also, your local farm markets allow you to speak with producers.
    Ellen Kurrelmeyer, Whiting, VT

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