Obama spoke at the Brandenburg Gate yesterday; 100,000 people were expected, 200,000 showed up.
This is the moment when we must come together to save this planet. Let us resolve that we will not leave our children a world where the oceans rise and famine spreads and terrible storms devastate our lands. Let us resolve that all nations -- including my own -- will act with the same seriousness of purpose as has your nation, and reduce the carbon we send into our atmosphere. This is the moment to give our children back their future. This is the moment to stand as one.
Not to kvetch, but can we please stop talking about "saving the planet"? Let's talk about saving our own asses.
Copenhagen talks ready for take off: 5, 4, 3…
Obama administration may (finally) offer greenhouse-gas targets
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mgallagher Posted 2:48 am
25 Jul 2008
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alphaniner Posted 4:08 am
25 Jul 2008
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Ben Jervey Posted 4:59 am
25 Jul 2008
http://www.sustaiNYC.com
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GreenMom Posted 2:30 pm
25 Jul 2008
We're just arguing with ourselves here. Pilpul. (...for you Talmudic scholars out there).
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Wolverine Posted 5:51 am
26 Jul 2008
Those of you who claim that the Earth will be fine or better off without humans are only half correct. While that's true on its surface, we are trying to save other species and ecosystems, and the land, air, and water from human-caused harms. That's what I mean when I talk about saving the Earth or protecting it from human harms.
Furthermore, no one really knows whether humans could make the Earth into a lifeless hunk like Mars or the moon. Tropical rainforests destroyed by humans will likely never return, as they took 200 million years to evolve. Forests in the middle east that were turned into deserts by humans have not recovered and show no signs of doing so. Species made extinct, by humans or otherwise, are gone forever.
The whole argument that humans can't destroy the Earth and that it can only destroy us, is an anti-environmental one. Its ultimate conclusion is that it's OK to do whatever you want, because hey, we can't harm the Earth anyway. This is not to say that it might be a better tactic to talk about saving humans because they're basically selfish, but we should also talk about the natural environment and the massive harms humans have done and are still doing to it.
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angelgaidin Posted 12:32 pm
26 Jul 2008
And no, we would never be able to destroy the Earth, or its environment. To think that we could is the height of our arrogance. We can be crushed at its slightest whim, and any damage we do to it will be repaired, and much more quickly than we could imagine.
Take one look at one of humanity's biggest 'weapons' against the environment, nuclear waste. After the incident at Chernobyl, scientists figured it would never grow back to the way it was, but it's actually come back at an astonishing rate. As a matter of fact, it's more healthy now than some of the surrounding areas, a haven for surprisingly strong populations of several species at varying levels of endangerment.
The bottom line is we have done very little damage to the Earth that it would not have done to itself. I won't go into the details, but volcanoes are much more destructive towards the environment than humans. More so than we could ever dream of becoming, even in all our arrogance.
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Wolverine Posted 7:22 am
27 Jul 2008
Additionally, the basic premise of this argument is laughable. Volcanoes are not "destructive towards the environment," they are a natural part of it, unlike modern human actions and behaviors.
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guade00 Posted 2:20 pm
27 Jul 2008
"strong electromagnetic fields..." I suppose you meant Earth's magnetosphere. Review your astronomy 101--most of the solar system's planets have a magnetosphere. Not sure what your point is about electromagnetism, which pervades the universe;
"geologic activity..." Again, not much of a point here. Other celestial bodies, even a moon around Saturn (Titan), have exhibited some form of geologic activity, except it's called "planetary geology."
Earth's atmosphere is not a constant, nor is any life form on it, save perhaps for some varieties of bacteria and protozoa. A quick scan of the history of life on Earth shows that mass extinctions have a distinct probability.
The real point is, we won't need to destroy Earth or its environment to imperil our species and most multi-cellular life. That may be part of Obama's point.
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justlou Posted 10:06 pm
27 Jul 2008
Misanthropic environmental humanist curmudgeon
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amazingdrx Posted 12:07 am
28 Jul 2008
And they are running constantly, repeated (for free) on the mass delusional news cycle. If voters are able to give Obama the huge landslide he will need to beat the voting fraud in bushland, it will be a miracle.
Remember that the red state fraud squads have absolute immunity on any and all tactics, since no prosecution (thanks to rove controlling federal prosecutors)or fraud protection occured in the interim. No replacement of chads and even more electronic voting machines without a paper trail.
Plus investigators of voting machine fraud actually illustrated how to beat the electronic voting machines, the cheaters have online tutorials on how it's done.
Go ahead and complain about Obama now, but you will be suicidal when mcbush is appointed. Then all the hillary supporters will chime in with we told you so, that southern fraud under the guise of racism was something Obama could not overcome.
Of course she wouldn't have overcome it either, the excuse would then be Clinton hating and sexism. Rove has this election tied u[p already and mccain is just as brain dead as bush. Get ready for invasion Iran, Syria, ... and so forth.
Get ready for four more years, but hope for relief. The time for halting massive southern voting fraid has passed. Maybe by 2012 it could be fixed? Nope, not under a mcbush justice department.
This battle is still hopeless.
The latest swiftboat ad, repeated for free on the news over and over? Obama failed to visit wounded troops.
Oh this is good, just as the Obama spokesman was countering the ad, MSNBC switched to a tabloid story, "breaking news!", hehey. The gunman hated "liberals" and he couldn't find a job. Good stuff, very important.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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PermieWriter Posted 2:41 am
28 Jul 2008
Obama's Berlin speech was the first I've listened to in its entirety and I was moved to laughter -- and tears. He has what it takes to inspire both Americans and the rest of us humans to dramatic action. Thank Gaia.
Eat what you grow, grow what you eat
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