Two leaders—one mainstream, one radical—debate over green movement 6

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1. 

   caniscandida Posted 8:50 am
   29 Mar 2006

   Mann and Beinecke, what a teamFascinating conversation; thanks to Grist for facilitating it.
   I cannot stand Eric Mann's style.  He is precisely the sort of leader out of whose classroom or out of whose army I would be strongly tempted to exit, however much I might agree with what he says.  And in fact he obviously has a lot of good to say.  Nevertheless he must learn that style matters; and he wins no style-points by being so adversative.  (I almost said, by being so much a bully.)  And he must understand that it requires a terrific amount of self-discipline to remain listening to his charges of air-headedness and privilegedness and non-people-of-color-ness.
   That said, I love what he has to say about public transit issues, especially in sprawling Sun-Belt cities; and about the inadequacies of the DC Democratic leadership.  And I join him in asking Frances Beinecke -- whose organization I admire gratefully -- to get the Democrats to say the kind of enlightened sentence that Eric hoped he had heard from John Kerry.
   As for training organizers, excellent point to agree on and end on.  One wonders what the curriculum will be, though; more disagreements therein lurk.   Anyway, what is wrong with privileged white college kids these days? : )  Back in the '60s, some of them at least were ready to join the civil rights movement, travel to the South and, if necessary, get severely beat up.

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2. 

   bookerly Posted 9:23 am
   29 Mar 2006

   Labels
   
      Interesting conversation, great to see Grist doing this!!  Do more!  
      That said, I have one small problem (okay one to bring up in this post).  You label Eric Mann as a radical.  Imagine the difference people might feel if you labeled him as a conservative eco-justice organizer.  Hmmm.  Labels matter.  The right has been successful in marginalizing "other" voices (such as the environmental movement) by apply labels seen as negative to their spokespeople.  
       Don't contribute to that.  Labels matter.  Radical is generally considered a "negative" label in American political circles.  When you label Eric Mann as a radical, you imply (unintended, I am sure) that his message is to be discounted.
       Let the messages speak for themselves.
       Thanks again for a thought provoking dialogue.
   Patrick

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3. 

   Stentor Posted 5:32 am
   30 Mar 2006

   Bully?I don't see how Mann is too adversarial, or remotely bullying. I see him as someone who's passionate and trying to reach out to an establishment mired in play-it-safe incrementalism. And calling members of oppressed groups "too adversarial" when they speak out for justice has long been a strategy that the establishment uses to sideline and blunt the force of those groups' demands.

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4. 

   billofrights Posted 1:56 am
   31 Mar 2006

   Mann-Beinecke ConversationThanks for Grist hosting this conversation - we would like to see more between grassroots people and the mainstream, big-enviro groups.
   What caught my attention was the way Ms. Beinecke drifted past the issue raised about the nature of transportation in the LA region.  Mr. Mann suggests there is a tension between the light-rail Metro system, which I hear is very expensive, and, according to him, not going to serve the needs of the urban-suburban poor, whereas clean bus vehicles will.  There is the suggestion, not explicit, that his groups and NRDC may be backig different mass-transit alternatives for the region - though this is an inference on my part.  But the dialogue didn't clear this up.
   I live in the Metro-DC area, which has its own nightmare auto congestion problems on the infamous beltway(495) and roads such as 270.  The metro-DC area also has one of the nations more successful rail systems - Metro and MARC - but guess what: it has no permanent source of funding amongst its Virginia, Maryland and DC components, and it has seen very little expansion over the past two decades.  Smart-growth groups in the region seem very hard pressed to offer alternatives to major new highway expansions - new toll lanes on the beltway in VA and MD, built and funded entirely by the private sector, ala Texas, - and a $2.4 billion 18 mile stretch of new East-West highway called the ICC- also toll - largely in Montgomery County, which is very controversial and I oppose.
    What's missing from the major DC groups is the funding for studies about large scale expansion of Metro to serve the suburbs, both poor and middle class. (there is a development driven line expansion from Tysons corner VA to Dulles Airport) - very much a VA matter though)
   Environmental Defense has helped on a less sweeping, incremental set of improvements to counter the new road idea of the ICC - which has been helpful to opponents of the road, but I can't find the studies or the vision to counter the private sector driven toll lanes that are being offered to solve the region's gridlock.
   And there are echoes of the rail-bus debate in the background here too, with additional bus service being proposed by some progressives to solve local problems, and Democratic candidate for Governor O'Malley has said that Republican Governor Ehrlich has been opposed to large scale rail proposals and has offered more incremental bus improvements so solve local problems.
   If we can't get "vision" with all the resources at the disposal of big environment's home turf and suburban affluence in the MetroDC area, where are we going to find it? (Metro, Atlanta?).  
   
   William R. Neil
   
   Rockville, MD

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5. 

   billofrights Posted 2:25 am
   31 Mar 2006

   Debate on New Apollo ProjectAlong the lines of the Mann-Beinecke conversation, how about one on the wisdom and status of the Apollo Alliance's New Apollo Project?
   Given the changing poll numbers on dependence on foreign oil and the threat posed by global warming, how is the major policy proposal called the New Apollo Project doing?  
   Hint..Hint...When new Democratic Governor Kaine in VA gave the Democratic State of the Union response, he tantalizingly approached the policy area in his reply...but... no mention of the Alliance....and of course, the original list of supporters had many very prominent environmental groups missing and...Bracken Hendricks, former Ex. Director at the Alliance has gone to John Podesta's Center for American Progress, where an Apollo "Light," focused on alternative fuels grown in America's breadbasket (mostly red states) seems to have the policy momentum...
   
   William R. Neil
   
   Rockville, MD

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6. 

   caniscandida Posted 4:56 pm
   02 Apr 2006

   "too adversarial"?I was referring solely to Mr. Mann's etiquette in a conversation with Ms. Beinecke.  Basically, he was picking a fight.  I do not accuse him of being altogether deceitful, but he might have been more up-front about his agenda, and what he disliked about Ms. Beinecke's organization.  There was absolutely no good purpose served in trying to shame her.
   In our American politics, the adversarial tone is well employed, against legislators fleeing down the Capitol steps; against chief executors fleeing to their helicopters, dogs in toe; in our age, against certain Supreme Court justices who like to shoot metal pellets into innocent little birds, and so murder them; against certain Vice Presidents who like to shoot metal pellets into as many as 70 innocent little birds in a day (says Newsweek of Dick Cheney), and so murder every one of them; to say nothing of their good Texan friend.

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