‘Mauna Loa is a volcano’—CO2 rise is measured on top of a volcano! 8

(Part of the How to Talk to a Global Warming Skeptic guide)

Objection: CO2 levels are recorded on top of Mauna Loa ... a volcano! No wonder the levels are so high.

Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
(image courtesty of Global Warming Art)

Answer: Yes, it's true, Mauna Loa is an active volcano. In fact it's the biggest volcano on earth! So, should we suppose that Charles Keeling didn't know that?

Well, no, he did know it. And using subtle scientific indicators like "wind direction," he was even able to ensure that his readings were not contaminated by any out-gassing when it was occurring. OK, to be fair, it is not really always that simple; out-gassed CO2 can be carried far away on a favorable wind, only to return much later on an ill one. But really, these are clever people, these scientists, and while mistakes are made, they are not usually such simple ones.

A quick look at the actual levels recorded makes it pretty hard to believe there is any volcanic influence. We have a nice, slow, steady trend with a regular up and down seasonal variation. No spikes, no dips. Nothing random, as one would expect from an overwhelming volcanic influence. The record is here among other places.

But, OK, let's throw out Mauna Loa. There are dozens of other sampling stations scattered all over the globe, including one in the Antarctic, far from cities, SUVs, cement plants, and active volcanoes. It also shows the same rise [PDF], though the southern hemisphere tends to lag a few years behind the northern hemisphere, where the majority of the CO2 is produced. Here are eight others -- same results.

Sorry, its all of us Joes, not the volcanoes.

Former musician, turned tree planter, turned software engineer. Same old story

I have been blogging about climate change since 2006 at A Few Things Ill Considered.

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  1. MarchDancer Posted 6:00 pm
    28 Oct 2006

    Hooray It's Mauna Loa! Not.Ah, and I was all set to apologize to all of my acquaintances who need to convince me that there is not a global warming occurrence. Maybe I'll just satisfy myself and dress as Bush in a suit of cabbage all wilted with a bright sun over my head and my hand wiping my brow. A carried sign somewhere of, "Too hot for us!" We really are doing this - grandkids want to be strawberries 'cause they like them best of my garden.
    Borrow away, improve at will. After all, it's just for fun. Isn't it?

    In Peace, Harmony and Unity may we find ways to work together to meet our common goal - the health of our earthly Home.
  2. k8tea Posted 9:39 am
    16 Apr 2007

    volcanoesJust wanted to make a correction (well I guess you could call it an update) that was cited on Gristmill's how to argue with skeptics.  Perhaps it was a modest mistake, but research is key when making an argument.     It says,

              "But, OK, let's throw out Mauna Loa. There are dozens of other sampling stations scattered all over the globe, including one in the Antarctic, far from cities, SUVs, cement plants, and active volcanoes. It also shows the same rise [PDF], though the southern hemisphere tends to lag a few years behind the northern hemisphere, where the majority of the CO2 is produced. Here are eight others -- same results. "
    There have been active underwater valcanoes found in the artic ocean, on Greenland, Atlantic Ocean, and on Antartica.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060727180622 ...   and

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/05/040527235943 ...

    "The international science team from the United States and Canada mapped and sampled the ocean floor and collected video and data that indicate a major volcano exists on the Antarctic continental shelf, they announced on May 5 in a dispatch from the research vessel Laurence M. Gould, which is operated by the National Science Foundation (NSF)... Domack said the volcano lies in an area known as Antarctic Sound, at the northernmost tip of Antarctica. He noted that there has been 'no previous scientific record of active volcanoes in the region' where the new peak was discovered and that it is north of an existing boundary where volcanic activity is known to occur in the region. "  

    and

     http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725133.800

    "The two vent fields are located at latitude 71 degrees north on Mohns Ridge, between Iceland and the island of Spitsbergen. Lying between 500 and 700 metres beneath the surface, they are shallow for vents, says Rolf Pedersen, a marine geologist from the University of Bergen, Norway, whose team has been exploring the area since 1999.
    Using methane sensors and a robotic submarine, Pedersen's team found around 50 chimney vents and recorded temperatures of over 250 °C. Then the sensor melted."
    and

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4861170.stm

    "Researchers have found traces of a heat-loving bacterium that may live beneath a frozen lake in Antarctica. ... The bacteria appeared in sediment mixed with a core of ice drilled by Russian and French researchers.
    The heat-loving, or thermophilic, bacterium may suggest that hydrothermal vents exist on the lake floor.
    Meanwhile, a new ice core drilled this season may reveal whether there is also life in the lake itself. In the sediment, the team found genetic traces of a bacterium that usually lives in temperatures of 50-60C.
    'We expected to find life adapted to a cold environment but instead we found exactly the opposite,' said Jean-Robert Petit of the Laboratory of Glaciology and Geophysics of the Environment in Grenoble, France."

    and

    http://www.livescience.com/othernews/ap_051205_hot_spring ...

    "SAN FRANCISCO (AP) _ Scientists exploring the world's sea floor have discovered new super-hot, mineral-rich geysers belching from the southern Atlantic, Arctic and Indian oceans. "

    and

    http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/051123_island_g ...

    "Smellie studies Antarctic rock formations to find out how ancient eruptions affected the growth and retreat of ice sheets over the past 30 million years. The research helps climate scientists put modern atmospheric changes into perspective and predict future climate change.
    "This opportunity to monitor a live eruption and see how it affects ice cover is priceless," he said.
    Researchers thought volcanic activity on Montagu Island, which started in 2001, was winding down. This is the first eruption on the island to be observed as it occurs.
    The South Sandwich Island chain is an arc of 11 volcanoes 1,240 miles (2,000 kilometers) from the Antarctic continent. This remoteness means they are relatively pristine, unaffected by continental contamination."

    I'll stop here to give everyone a rest. hehehe
  3. Mad Scientist Posted 2:39 pm
    30 May 2007

    Mauna Loa is the biggest volcano?Why do you say it is the biggest volcano?

    It is certainly not the highest (for example, look at Popocatepetl). Nor has it provided the largest explosive eruptions in written history (Tambora, Krakatoa, and more recently Pinatubo).  It may seem off topic, but you can't expect people to believe all the climate stuff when you throw in incorrect statements such as this one on Mauna Loa.
  4. Tailspin Posted 9:18 pm
    30 May 2007

    Think it overMad Scientist,
    The Hawaiin volcano's rise from the sea bed, and are far higher than any land volcano.
    They have pumped out enough lava to get from the very deep ocean floor to well above it now, without going boom.
    A big boom does not necessarily mean it's the biggest volcano.
    Perhaps you should check your facts before writing a piece.
  5. Coby Beck's avatar

    Coby Beck Posted 4:27 am
    31 May 2007

    re: Mauna Loa biggest?Mad Scientist,
    As Tailspin noted Mauna Loa starts far far lower than does Popocatepetl and in fact is even larger than Mt Everest (which BTW, though highest is not the largest mountain in the world)
    Read this:

    http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/volcano-tours/faq/largest ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_McKinley
    Does that help restore some trust?

    "What if this weren't a hypothetical question?"

    -- unknown
  6. ataremove Posted 5:41 am
    31 May 2007

    volcanic contentI've had some education in Geology.  I found it interesting that there are basically two types of magma - Granite and Basalt.  

    Granite is less dense and melts at a higher temperature than Basalt.  The volcanoes with granitic magma tend to go boom, while those with basaltic magma tend to just pump out lava.  

    Krakatoa went Boom, while Mt. Etna in Sicily just keeps pumping out the lava.  There are other factors involved that affect what a volcano does when it erupts - like what all gets dragged down in a subduction zone that feeds a volcano.  

    Content in context.  Run that thru the gristmill between your ears.

    at a remove
  7. Mad Scientist Posted 12:16 pm
    02 Jun 2007

    [OT] biggest volcanoFair enough... my mistake. But is certainly isn't clear from the original post why it was claimed that Mauna Loa was the biggest.  Normal joes think of the altitude of the summit or, in the case of a volcano, the size of a bang.
    I'd prefer the HVO site to 'wikipedia' though:
    http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/maunaloa/

  8. ajajac Posted 4:53 pm
    18 Nov 2007

    local effectsThere are two obvious Mauna Loa volcanic events within the period displayed on the graph; the eruptions of 1975 and 1984. The latter was much the bigger of the two (resurfacing something like 50 square kilometers of the island) and was preceded by about two years of earthquakes and summit inflation. Neither of these events produces any action in the graph.

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Series Intro
'There is no evidence' -- Yes, there is 59
'Mauna Loa is a volcano' -- CO2 rise is measured on top of a volcano! 8
'Warming is due to the Urban Heat Island effect' -- No, it isn't 25
'One hundred years is not enough'--Yes it is 18
'The scientists aren't even sure' -- No scientist ever is 33
'One record year is not global warming'--Luckily, there are plenty more years to consider 19
'Glaciers have always grown and receded'--A few glaciers melting does not mean global warming 14
'The temperature record is unreliable'--But temperature trends are clear and widely corroborated 8
'It's cold today in Wagga Wagga'--Weather and climate are different 2
'The satellites show cooling'--No, they don't 15
'What about mid-century cooling?'--No one said CO2 is the only climate influence 11
'Antarctic ice is growing'--Well, probably not, but even if it were, we are not off the hook 8
'Global warming stopped in 1998'--Only if you flagrantly cherry pick 170
'But the glaciers are not melting'--Except ... they are! 3
'Antarctic sea ice is increasing'--Yes, but ... 14
'Sea level in the Arctic is falling'--Sea level is a surprisingly complicated thing 11
'Climate sensitivity is not very high'--Thermal inertia of the oceans means the jury is still out 2
'Some sites show cooling'--But you can't draw global conclusions from individual sites 0
'Global warming is a hoax'--I wish James Inhofe were just a hoax ... 12
'There is no consensus'--If this is not consensus, what would consensus look like? 109
'Position statements hide debate'--True enough, but that is not the whole picture 5
'Consensus is collusion'--Is climate science maturing, or should we reach for our tinfoil hats? 8
'Peiser refuted Oreskes'--In a poor piece of work that has been retracted by its author 4
'Models don't account for clouds'--Clouds are complex and uncertain, but unlikely to stop warming 6
'Climate models are unproven'--Actually, GCM's have many confirmed successes under their belts 13
'Aerosols should mean more warming in the south'--More North. Hemisphere warming is well-understood 1
'We can't even predict the weather next week'--But weather is not climate 11
'Chaotic systems are not predictable'--Sure, but who says climate is chaotic? 13
Understanding what is happening right under our noses does not require paleoclimate perfection 1
'They predicted global cooling in the 70s'--But that didn't even remotely resemble today's consensus 29
'Hansen has been wrong before'--Maybe, but not about the climate! 13
'It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum'--This period was not global and not like today 4
'The Medieval Warm Period was just as warm as today'--Repeating this point does not make it true 216
'Greenland used to be green'--Don't judge a book by its cover, much less a land by its name 23
Yes, the last ice age started thawing over 20,000 years ago, but that stopped a long time ago 5
'The hockey stick is broken'--Well, no ... but who's playing hockey anyway? 6
'Vineland was full of grapes'--Or was it an early advertising campaign? 4
'Global warming is part of a natural cycle'--This idea is one short step above appealing to magic 39
'Mars and Pluto are warming too'--No they aren't -- and what if they were? 24
'Volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans'--Not even close ... 31
'The null hypothesis says warming is natural'--An inappropriate test, and one that would fail anyway 4
'Climate is always changing'--That doesn't mean it isn't different today 5
'Natural emissions dwarf human emissions'--But emissions are only one side of the equation 5
'The CO2 rise is natural'--No skeptical argument has been more definitively disproven 12
'We are just recovering from the LIA'--Why should we expect this to happen? 4
'Climate scientists dodge the subject of water vapor'--No, they really don't 4
Water vapor is indeed a powerful greenhouse gas, but there is plenty of room for CO2 to play a role 29
There is no proof in science, but there are mountains of evidence 78
'CO2 doesn't lead, it lags'--Turns out CO2 rise is both a cause and an effect of warming 43
'Geological history does not support CO2's importance'--Just not true 0
'Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change'--Not so 19
'It's the sun, stupid'--Very bright, yes, but not getting brighter 18
The problem is not how high the temperature may go, but how fast it is changing 14
'Kyoto is a big effort for almost nothing'--Kyoto is only in its first phase 16
China and India have joined Kyoto, they just have different obligations, as is morally appropriate 3
'Climate change mitigation would lead to disaster'--Not really, but this may be lesser of two evils 6
Only if you ignore fossil fuel emissions 10
In 2008, did temperatures drop as much as they rose over the whole 20th century? 71
Is the IPCC so wrong their theories contradict a basic laws of physics? 23
Is the American Physical Society a crack in the climate change consensus? 3
Summer ice in the Arctic has recovered--Was the Arctic ice retreat a climate anomaly? 7
'Global warming comes from within'--Is heat at the Earth's core the real cause of global warming? 10
Was there another breathless announcement of another phony record, and another quiet retraction? 1
Hansen wants the skeptics thrown in jail--Did James Hansen really want to try the climate skeptics? 6
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