Gristmill to hybrid drivers, calling all hybrid drivers 13

A few days ago I blogged about Wired's review of hybrid cars. I was hoping to hear from others to learn how Wired's reviews stacked up against the experience of actual hybrid car owners/drivers. Sadly, no comments.

However ... ... a little bird sent me a link to The New York Times op-ed piece titled "Me and My Hybrid." In it, Oliver Sacks raves about his new Honda Accord hybrid:

Fuel cells and a hydrogen economy being still some way in the future, I recently traded in my Lexus 300 ES sedan for a six-cylinder Honda Accord hybrid. My new car performs as well or better than the previous one, but gives nearly double the mileage for a gallon of gas. Doing a rather average amount of driving in a year - 20,000 or 30,000 miles - I find that I am saving 500 to 1,000 gallons of gas. True, I had to pay a premium for the car (about $3,300 more than the equivalent gas-only model), and my trunk space is a bit reduced, to make room for the battery. But I will make up the extra cost in gas savings in a year or two, I have the convenience of filling my tank only every 500 miles and, more important, I can now drive while enjoying the feeling that I am being economical with fuel and adding half as many pollutants to the atmosphere.

Compare the above to Wired's assessment:

But for a few modest details, you'd have a hard time distinguishing this car from the standard Accord. To avoid the lackluster performance that plagues Honda's other hybrid models, the company's pumped up the Accord Hybrid with a full-size 3-liter V-6. Put the pedal to the metal and you'll unleash 255 horsepower and 232 pound-feet of torque (the amount of power applied to the drivetrain, important in determining how fast a car can accelerate). That's enough to launch the car from zero to 60 in 6.7 seconds, a full half-second faster than a conventional V-6 Accord. Still, in day-to-day driving, the Accord Hybrid promises 30 mpg around town and 37 on the highway - numbers typically found in a much smaller econobox.

While the gas mileage doesn't seem to be that high, the Accord hybrid seems to come equipped with the features that may interest those previously wary about buying a hybrid.

Anyone else care to rant or rave about your hybrid driving experience? Are you pleased with your MPG? Why did you decide to purchase a hybrid? Has your purchased sparked interest with friends and family? Did you buy early and now wish you waited for one of the newer hybrids? Do any of you Gristmillers own/drive a hybrid? Or do you think hybrids are overly-hyped or a distraction and we'd should be focusing on hydrogen, biodiesel or giving up cars altogether? Speak to me.

Web Developer for PCC Natural Markets

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  1. MikeCapone Posted 5:36 am
    25 Mar 2005

    GreenHybrid.comhttp://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/
    You can find a forum and a database there.

    --


    SUVs are squared-out minivans.
  2. Chris Schults Posted 6:03 am
    25 Mar 2005

    Gristmill is the forum!Thanks Mike, GreenHybrid.com is a cool site, but I'm interested in hearing from Gristmillians. ;-)

    Support Grist: http://www.grist.org/support
  3. river2sea72 Posted 7:20 am
    25 Mar 2005

    From my brother-in-lawMy brother-in-law has a 2004 Prius and he likes it okay, but says that he doesn't get nearly the reported mileage.  More like 35 in the city and 38 in the highway.  You could do better with a regular 'ol compact car (we used to have a Ford Escort that easily got 40 on the highway and cost a whole lot less than the Prius).
  4. pattyelaine72 Posted 8:12 am
    25 Mar 2005

    My civic hybrid is great!I bought a civic hybrid about a year and a half ago (easier to see out of than a prius, no 5-month waiting list, and honda's overall environmental practices are better than toyota's) and I am still high. I get great mileage.  If the outside air temp goes below about 20, which it does, for months at a time  (this is Minnesota folks) the hybrid technology is far less efficient, something the dealers did not know or did not choose to tell me until AFTER I had bought the car....but even still, I am regularly getting about 38-40 miles to the gallon and even more on long road trips. I drove from Sturgis MI ,to Minneapolis on one tank of gas!
    True, it doesn't have a ton of pickup or "zip" but I honestly don't care. I would rather drive a fuel efficient car than a fast car. Easy trade off for me. I still talk about it with anyone who'll listen. People at the gas stations think I am a freak when I rant (happily) about my mileage!
    The other thing that I love about the civic is that it looks like a "normal" car...the prius is a little "weird" looking. I know, I know, this is part of its appeal, but I think it's good for the public to see that not all alternative technologies are strange-looking...
    What did strike me as disturbing was how little the sales staff at the numerous dealerships I went to (both Toyota and Honda) knew about the hybrid cars. There were cases when I was teaching them about hybrids. In one case the salesperson did not even know where the battery pack on one car was) It seems weird to me that sales staff would not know much and thus, would not be as inclined to "push" these cars on people because of their lack of knowledge and/or enthusiasm. I still answer basic questions about the car to sales AND mechanic staff when I bring the car in for oil changes, etc.  Maybe this lack of knowledge and enthusiasm has changed, in other dealerships and I hope it has, but it was a big surprise.
  5. lovenature2 Posted 1:28 pm
    25 Mar 2005

    Our Prius HybridMy husband and I ordered our Prius sight unseen. The dealer had none to test drive or even show to us. When we decided to order we had to put down a very small deposit. We were told if we changed our mind it would be refunded. The demand for the Prius was so large they had no trouble selling a car someone decided against. We were told the waiting period would be 6-9 moonths. About a week later we were told someone else's had come in and we could take a look. Still we could not get in it, being that it belonged to someone already. We liked the futuristic, yet almost normal look of it. We were anxious for ours to arrive. It was not until 11 months later that our own Prius was delivered. Just in time for Christmas. Here in Upstate NY our winters tend to be quite white. My husband's commute is 45 miles each way in areas that can be very treacherous. The car handles great. It seems grounded and holds the road. We were dazzled at first with the electronic screens that give constant readouts about energy source and efficiency. Not using a key is a novelty as well. We are getting on average 45mpg. The gas mileage is a little lower than we expected. But in doing research and talking to the dealer found that running the heat or the air lowers fuel eficiency. So we are looking forward to spring to see how it preforms in average temperatures. We are very happy with it. I use it every chance I get and show it off to everyone that will listen. Most people are very interested. With gas today at $2.20 I only wish now that I had ordered one for myself too!
  6. larrycham Posted 12:58 am
    26 Mar 2005

    Hybrid carsOur experience with our 2004 Prium is totally positive.  We love the car in every way, from its design to its ease of driving.  And of course, the fuel efficiency that makes this car so outstanding is good, if not so good as the EPA rating (but what car does achieve these ratings?  I have never had one that did).  We average 47.5 miles per gallon around town, which is most of our driving.  Because you get a constant readout of your fuel economy, you can adjust your driving techniques to maximize the efficiency. There are three techniques I have found to improve efficiency: 1) get up to cruising speed fairly quickly in a steady (not jackrabbit) acceleration; 2) once at cruising speed (preferable around 40 MPH), use cruise control to keep it steady; and 3) whenever possible, without irritating drivers behind you, coast into red traffic lights or other stops.
    Here is a story to illustrate another advantage of the hybrid car.  Hurricane Ivan forced us to evacuate from our home in NW Florida last September.  Returning through Alabama, before we knew it we had reached the hurricane-impacted reagion where gas was only available at a few stations.  Long lines reminded us of the 1970s.  Some cars ran out of gas and had to be pushed to the side.  We were very low, down to the last 1/16 of a tank or less. Moving up in the line, we used only the electric engine and therefore had no worry about running out of gas.  We noticed a few people looking at us, as they saw our silent car slip up to the pump.        

    A pervasive change in consciousness is our best hope for developing a sustainable future. -- Thomas Berry
  7. jschmit Posted 11:22 am
    26 Mar 2005

    Prius is a joyLast summer I decided to move on from my 2wd Nissan truck that got about 20mpg and didn't handle great in our frequent west Michigan lake-effect snows.  I looked at hybrids and fuel-efficient compacts.  The hybrids were just way out of my price range and there weren't any on the used market.  Then out of nowhere I saw an ad for a '01 Prius.  I did a test drive and loved it.  It was such a thrill.  Still thinking $11k was too much, I passed on it and checked out the new Toyota Echo and some used Corollas.  None of them matched the refinement and joy of the Prius so I took out a loan and just went for it.  I haven't had a single regret.  
    Since it already had 56k miles on it I've had to sink more money into some things.  New tires were not cheap since they must have a stronger side-wall to support the heavier front end--and low resistance tires add to the premium you pay.  Regular 60k maintenance also cost another $300.  Recently the front rotors needed to be re-machined due to the salt corrosion of our awful winter roads.  Other work has been covered by Toyota's special maintenance bulletins (battery work and stearing column).
    During the summer my average mpg was about 48 but as soon as winter kicked in it was about 38.  I'm not exactly sure why.  It just started warming up here (40!) and I'm noticing an improvement.
    One of the joys with the car is its performance.  My guilty pleasure is occasionally leaving campus amidst the 2 lanes of traffic and turning out onto the highway.  When I floor it, both engines kick in (ICE and electric) and it takes off, leaving many of the slower, polluting cars in the dust.  It's pure geeky/ego fun.
    Overall I don't know how much money I'm really saving since I could have bought a much cheaper used compact and not have to pay interest on the loan AND still get close to the same mpg.  But the mpg comparison with conventional cars doesn't factor in one of the most important aspects of how a hybrid works.  During acceleration (the most polluting part of driving) a lot less pollutants are emitted by a hybrid compared to conventional cars because that's when the electric engine is helping out the most.  The other important difference is simply demonstrating forward-thinking technology and sharing that with others.  
  8. Chris Schults Posted 12:06 pm
    27 Mar 2005

    Thanks & article on increasing MPGFirst, I'd like to thank everyone who has been willing to share their hybrid experiences.
    jschmit, I have to echo your last paragraph. The reason I bought my Civic hybrid was not to save money -- it was to reduce gasoline consumption and decrease emissions. Plus, I hoped it would be a conversation piece that would lead to friends and family considering joining the hybrid crowd. No purchases yet, but my girlfriend's parents are toying around with the idea.
    My Civic hybrid's MPG also declined in winter (38 from 42). You may want to check out GreenHybrid.com, which was mentioned above. In particular, check out "Why Can't I Match EPA Mileage Figures?".
    river2sea72, you may want to direct your brother to the same article. Where you live, how you drive and the tempature can make big differences when it comes to gas mileage. As the posts above reveal, hybrid cars can get the MPG that is advertised.

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  9. jdhlax Posted 3:28 pm
    27 Mar 2005

    Hybrid Mileage DisappointingIn 1974 I bought a Datsun 1200, which was a stick shift.  I lived in Chicago and had a horse about 40 miles away, so I did about half city and half highway driving.  That car got a composite 35 mpg.  The mileage of the hybrids is a joke considering that it's 30 years later!  If I were to buy a car, it would be a hybrid, simply because they use the least amount of gas, but if the automakers were actually serious about mileage, they'd probably be getting twice the mileage.
  10. schlegel Posted 4:36 am
    28 Mar 2005

    One Vermonter's Civic Hybrid ExperienceThanks for the article and the comments.  I truly love Grist -- just started reading it a couple of months ago and I'm really impressed.
    I bought a Civic Hybrid in June, 2003.  I now have 30,000 miles on it and am overall pretty satisfied with performance and mileage.  
    I agree with the posters that the Honda technicians at the dealership are not quite up to speed on the ins and outs -- yes, winter is a mileage killer (down to 38 mpg here in VT ) but they weren't able to articulate that answer clearly last winter, when I called in concern.  This year I knew it was coming, and now I'm starting to look forward to seeing the mileage inch back to 50+.
    I've been a Honda driver for 15 years so the Civic suits me fine.  I don't need ultra-speed (and I guess I'll never understand people who do -- there's a speed limit! why do you need a car that goes 100 mph?) and the car is plenty zippy for the driving I do.  
    When Honda began talking about the Hybrid, I knew that the next car I bought (my previous car was a '92 Civic hatchback) would be a Hybrid, so I drove my '92 as long as I could, donated it, and bought a new one.  I'll drive this one for over 100,000 miles, too.
    I have driven the Prius and enjoyed it, though from a style standpoint they are very different.  I have had a number of friends try the Hybrid and either buy one or buy a Prius; more importantly, I have had many conversations with folks about the fact that it's just a "normal" car with better gas mileage.  And getting people to think about gas mileage is crucial!
    Thanks for listening.
    Liz Schlegel in VT
  11. REwonk Posted 5:23 am
    14 Apr 2005

    Don't forget the Insight!Cheers to all you folks driving Priuses and Hybrid Civics, but if you really want to save gasoline, the vehicle you should be buying is the Honda Insight (yes, Honda still sells a few of them each year). I've had mine for almost exactly 5 years, and my lifetime fuel economy is now at about 58 mpg. And by the way, I drive like a bat out of hell -- no pretending there's an egg under the foot of THIS Insight driver!
    For maximum fuel economy AND performance, I recommend passing on the A/C and getting a manual transmission. I've never driven the automatics for any real distance, so I can't judge them, but there's nothing like being able to downshift when you need the power, or when you need to charge the battery more because you KNOW there's a steep hill coming a mile ahead. Driving the Insight stick becomes much more a game of strategy, perhaps more than most people want, but I like the feeling of controlling (to the extent I can) the way the battery charges and discharges.
    There are a few things I would change if I could: for one, I'd put in a switch to disable the motor boost, which can be a real pain in stop-and-go driving. I'd add another switch for maximum recharging of the battery, a nice little feature that would keep you from having to ride the brake pedal on those long battery-charging downhills. And I'd add the capability to run an inverter with my battery pack, so my car can provide power to my home during a blackout.
    Also, to answer another post, fuel efficiency drops for several reasons during the winter: the colder temps hurt the battery efficiency, plus if you're in an area that uses ethanol in the winter, that will have a slight negative impact as well. You're also more likely to be commuting with your headlights on, which is an additional energy drain. And in my case, slapping on studded snow tires cuts in even further, lowering my winter mpg to a pathetic 50 mpg. Horrible! :>)
  12. TX Hybrid Posted 1:08 am
    13 Jun 2005

    Hot in TXFirst, the real reason I bought an Accord Hybrid (HAH) was that I needed a new car.  I needed something for a growing family.  The HAH is quite safe.  It's also "peppy" enough to be able to pass a V8 turbo truck (lot's of 'em here in TX).  I had thought about the HCH and Prius (the Insight was out because it's a two seater), but on both (all three really) cars the AC stops running when you come to a stop!  That may not matter in VT but here in TX it's a big deal!  The HAH is the only one with an electric (combo) AC unit.
    As for "real world" mileage... I went from a short 7mi/12minute commute on city streets where I was getting an average of ~22mpg to a commute of 15mi/20minutes where half or better is freeway at ~65+mph  and I am now averaging better than 30mpg for a whole week's driving.
    trying to keep cool,

    -TX
  13. Chris Schults Posted 2:39 am
    13 Jun 2005

    Honda Accord Hybrid and ACThanks TX Hybrid for resurrecting this post from where ever it has been. I drive a Honda Civic Hybrid and know what you mean when referring to the AC turning off.
    This occurs due to the auto-stop feature, which IMHO is really cool as you don't waste gas or spew emissions when stopped at a red light or you're stuck in traffic. However, this feature does turn off the AC (or heat). But, you can "disable" the auto-stop by letting your foot of the brake momentarily or setting your air controls in a particular way.
    So, TX, I have a question, does the Honda Accord Hybrid have the auto-stop feature for idling? If so, does the AC stay on?

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