A big collection of policy makers, activists, job-training types, and labor union honchos are getting together later this week in Pittsburgh for "Good Jobs, Green Jobs: A National Green Jobs Conference," and it's my job to be there to watch it all go down.
It'll be a good opportunity to find out what's hope and what's hype about the emerging green jobs movement -- not to mention exploring Pittsburgh's better bars and restaurants on Grist's dime! Uh, just kidding there. Haha! Nothing but crackers and tap water for me.
Anyway, I'd love to bring questions from Grist readers about green jobs -- personal, political, policy, pedagogical, or Pittsburghian. I'll report back next week with answers and information for green job seekers.
Log on and tell us what you want to know.
Why won’t Lisa Jackson/Nancy Sutley visit a mountaintop removal site?
Arlen Specter (D-Pa.) [UPDATED]
Comments
View as Threaded
mihan Posted 5:06 am
11 Mar 2008
I've been thinking about getting into environmental/climate organizing, but have two main problems. I want you to find out and tell me how to get around them:
(1) I don't have a life right now, but I want one. How can I find an organizing job that doesn't burn me out? I'm not a college kid anymore, I want an adult job.
(2) I have a lot of organizing experience, but it was (almost) all as a volunteer. How do I successfully convey that skilz acquired as a volunteer are just as transferable as skilz acquired as an employee?
Permalink
Tom Philpott Posted 5:17 am
11 Mar 2008
Please try to figure out how agriculture fits into this green jobs paradigm. Americans a) spend billions of dollars per year on food; and b) have an environmentally ruinous food system.
Surely there are opportunities to launch careers in growing food in ecologically sound ways. Now, everyone knows that returns on small-scale farming are so low that few young folks can afford to jump into it; but are there any initiatives out there designed to make sustainable farming more economically sustainable -- say, by investing in infrastructure (tractors, processing, etc), training, this sort of thing?
It seems to me that, going forward, any real "green economy" will be underpinned by robust local and regional food production.
Victual Reality
Permalink
Sean Casten Posted 5:33 am
11 Mar 2008
I remain skeptical until we get clear definitions that this isn't good PR divorced from it's consequences... Witness the fact that 26 states have 26 different definitions of renewable energy, or that no one can come up with a consistent definition of "sustainability".
Permalink
Kevin Doyle Posted 6:32 am
11 Mar 2008
Thanks for the query and I will definitely raise it to the conference speakers and workshop leaders, especially in light of the anticipated focus on non-agricultural approaches that promise good green jobs for the heartland. Read: wind energy, biomass, a re-energized manufacturing sector, energy efficiency projects.
It would be a pity if economic growth in these areas came at the expense of policies and investments that build strong local and regional food systems. Obviously, an environmentally sound, socially just and economically viable food system lies at the very heart of a green economy.
Should be a lively discussion!
Kevin
Kevin Doyle
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//
var l=new Array();
var output = '';
l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[26]='\"';l[27]=' 109';l[28]=' 111';l[29]=' 99';l[30]=' 46';l[31]=' 108';l[32]=' 105';l[33]=' 97';l[34]=' 109';l[35]=' 103';l[36]=' 64';l[37]=' 101';l[38]=' 108';l[39]=' 121';l[40]=' 111';l[41]=' 100';l[42]=' 108';l[43]=' 110';l[44]=' 105';l[45]=' 118';l[46]=' 101';l[47]=' 107';l[48]=':';l[49]='o';l[50]='t';l[51]='l';l[52]='i';l[53]='a';l[54]='m';l[55]='\"';l[56]='=';l[57]='f';l[58]='e';l[59]='r';l[60]='h';l[61]='a ';l[62]='
Permalink
Kevin Doyle Posted 7:33 am
11 Mar 2008
Thanks for your query. There are several sessions at which this issue will come up. In my other work with public, private and nonprofit employers, however, I'm picking up on a bit of fatigue around the question. Many people seem to be concluding that trying to define terms like "green jobs" and "green collar jobs" might be more trouble than it's worth. We might earn more points by simply identifying some of the job titles in specific industries (wind, solar, energy efficiency and green building are repeated again and again) that could reasonably grow with appropriate policies and investments. When people ask if there aren't many other jobs that could reasonably be labelled as "green", the answer could be "yes, of course, but right now we're talking about this target list of energy/efficiency jobs".
Having said that, many of the popularizers of the term "green collar jobs" will be in the room and I'll be certain to ask about the definitions behind some of their job projections.
Kevin
Kevin Doyle
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//
var l=new Array();
var output = '';
l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[26]='\"';l[27]=' 109';l[28]=' 111';l[29]=' 99';l[30]=' 46';l[31]=' 108';l[32]=' 105';l[33]=' 97';l[34]=' 109';l[35]=' 103';l[36]=' 64';l[37]=' 101';l[38]=' 108';l[39]=' 121';l[40]=' 111';l[41]=' 100';l[42]=' 108';l[43]=' 110';l[44]=' 105';l[45]=' 118';l[46]=' 101';l[47]=' 107';l[48]=':';l[49]='o';l[50]='t';l[51]='l';l[52]='i';l[53]='a';l[54]='m';l[55]='\"';l[56]='=';l[57]='f';l[58]='e';l[59]='r';l[60]='h';l[61]='a ';l[62]='
Permalink
Sean Casten Posted 7:40 am
11 Mar 2008
(And, much like mission statements, they are tedious and never seem that important at the early stages...)
Permalink
Kevin Doyle Posted 9:27 am
11 Mar 2008
My point was that while we work out these definitions, we might also do well to speak to the public (and each other)in the more accurate, but less colorful, language of traditional employment categories.
Instead of saying "clean/green" energy, for example, and getting lost in definitions, we can limit our statements to facts that track back to real numbers, such as "assembly line employment at xx wind energy manufacturing sites in the United States grew by 'x' in the last two years", or "the demand for energy auditors in California has increased by 'y' since 2006", or "the number of architects receiving certification from the US Green Building Council has gone up xxx% since the first certification standards were agreed upon".
In some industry sectors and employment categories, we already have enough information to encourage public investment and create new training programs with an expectation that the trainees will find jobs upon graduation in numbers that we can guess at accurately.
I would hate for such training programs to wither on the drawing boards for lack of financial assistance because we can't decide whether they "count" as green collar jobs or not.
But I digress! Leading representatives from most of the major environmental, social justice, civil rights and labor union organizations promoting the "green" and "green collar" jobs efforts will be together in one place for a couple of days, so let's see what kind of definitions are running around out there, and get a reaction from you and others.
Kevin
Kevin Doyle
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//
var l=new Array();
var output = '';
l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[26]='\"';l[27]=' 109';l[28]=' 111';l[29]=' 99';l[30]=' 46';l[31]=' 108';l[32]=' 105';l[33]=' 97';l[34]=' 109';l[35]=' 103';l[36]=' 64';l[37]=' 101';l[38]=' 108';l[39]=' 121';l[40]=' 111';l[41]=' 100';l[42]=' 108';l[43]=' 110';l[44]=' 105';l[45]=' 118';l[46]=' 101';l[47]=' 107';l[48]=':';l[49]='o';l[50]='t';l[51]='l';l[52]='i';l[53]='a';l[54]='m';l[55]='\"';l[56]='=';l[57]='f';l[58]='e';l[59]='r';l[60]='h';l[61]='a ';l[62]='
Permalink
Kevin Doyle Posted 9:30 am
11 Mar 2008
Kevin
Kevin Doyle
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//
var l=new Array();
var output = '';
l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[26]='\"';l[27]=' 109';l[28]=' 111';l[29]=' 99';l[30]=' 46';l[31]=' 108';l[32]=' 105';l[33]=' 97';l[34]=' 109';l[35]=' 103';l[36]=' 64';l[37]=' 101';l[38]=' 108';l[39]=' 121';l[40]=' 111';l[41]=' 100';l[42]=' 108';l[43]=' 110';l[44]=' 105';l[45]=' 118';l[46]=' 101';l[47]=' 107';l[48]=':';l[49]='o';l[50]='t';l[51]='l';l[52]='i';l[53]='a';l[54]='m';l[55]='\"';l[56]='=';l[57]='f';l[58]='e';l[59]='r';l[60]='h';l[61]='a ';l[62]='
Permalink
Sean Casten Posted 9:34 am
11 Mar 2008
As a practical matter, you can't. Knowledge is knowledge. Some use their chemistry skills to develop life-saving drugs and others use it to make explosives. And it's why I think that ultimately, the green jobs conversation puts the cart before the horse. Create a regulatory environment that stops subsidizing brown industries, and allows green industries to get paid for the societal benefits they create. Do that and the green jobs will follow. But if you don't do that first, all we've got is a highly educated unemployment statistic.
Permalink
carolgreencareer Posted 9:47 am
11 Mar 2008
I'll be at the Good Jobs, Green Jobs Conference as well. I too am looking forward to listening to the conversations and debates regarding the green economy.
It's an exciting time as we make new pathways into the green economy.
See you in Pittsburgh!
Carol
Founder and Managing Editor
GreenCareerCentral.com
Transform Your Passion for the
Environment into a Prosperous Green Career
Permalink
Erik Hoffner Posted 10:10 am
11 Mar 2008
While you're looking, why not apply to the Green Corps Organizer Training program? These folks will take all of your experience to date and train you to be a top flight organizer while paying you a pretty good salary. You can read the program's description here:
http://www.orionsociety.org/pages/ogn/viewposition.cfm?og ...
Lots of other jobs at the site as well in the category of advocacy, but this particular program is well recommended.
Erik
The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,100+ grassroots groups working for conservation & more
Permalink
GreenMom Posted 2:26 pm
11 Mar 2008
For example, is it lack of a skilled workforce? Need for training? Government incentives? ...and so forth.
Thanks.
Permalink
bookerly Posted 3:26 pm
11 Mar 2008
Hi Kevin,
I would like to hear people's thoughts about affirmative action. Or if they think about it at all.
Are there plans for special programs so that various under-represented groups can get a shot at these jobs?
thanks,
patrick in Beijing
Permalink
AmyErene Posted 10:18 pm
11 Mar 2008
What about the kids? I'm getting out of grad school in environmental engineering and would LOVE a green job, but everyone wants experience! Who's looking for fresh meat (and paying something)?
Permalink
BarbHaig Posted 11:40 pm
11 Mar 2008
Joy recently blogged on the Johnson Controls site (http://yourenergyforum.com/) about the definition, and I think it's an interesting approach: Start with the government definition from the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007.
* the energy-efficient building, construction, and retrofits industries
* the renewable electric power industry
* the energy efficient and advanced drive train vehicle industry
* the biofuels industry
* the deconstruction and materials use industries
* the energy efficiency assessment industry serving the residential, commercial, or industrial sectors
* manufacturers that produce sustainable products using environmentally sustainable processes and materials
I would add that we need to then split them into job divisions. Here's a start - Tier 1 - management/administrative/marketing, Tier 2 - manufacturing/processing, Tier 3 - onsite delivery/retail/real estate, Tier 4 - Services (health care, education, finance).
I'm no human resources person, so I know that's far from perfect. Maybe an HR organization can come up with LEED for jobs!
Looking forward to your posts from the conference.
Permalink
mihan Posted 11:43 pm
11 Mar 2008
I actually did consider Green Corps... but I'm just not that mobile (can't pick up for a couple months, then move somewhere else), plus... I'm 36, have a PhD in climate science, and was a union organizer for 5 years (the aforementioned "volunteer" experience, that was like a 0.33FTE job). I expect I wouldn't learn a whole lot, probably not enough to make all that moving worthwhile.
Permalink
Erik Hoffner Posted 12:28 am
12 Mar 2008
//
var l=new Array();
var output = '';
l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[36]='\"';l[37]=' 103';l[38]=' 114';l[39]=' 111';l[40]=' 46';l[41]=' 121';l[42]=' 116';l[43]=' 101';l[44]=' 105';l[45]=' 99';l[46]=' 111';l[47]=' 115';l[48]=' 110';l[49]=' 111';l[50]=' 105';l[51]=' 114';l[52]=' 111';l[53]=' 64';l[54]=' 114';l[55]=' 101';l[56]=' 110';l[57]=' 102';l[58]=' 102';l[59]=' 111';l[60]=' 104';l[61]=' 101';l[62]=' 46';l[63]=' 46';l[64]=' 46';l[65]=' 117';l[66]=' 111';l[67]=' 121';l[68]=':';l[69]='o';l[70]='t';l[71]='l';l[72]='i';l[73]='a';l[74]='m';l[75]='\"';l[76]='=';l[77]='f';l[78]='e';l[79]='r';l[80]='h';l[81]='a ';l[82]='
Permalink
Kevin Doyle Posted 1:05 am
12 Mar 2008
To Patrick in Beijing: Since many of the leaders in the green jobs movement come from environmental justice backgrounds, there is a serious focus on how clean energy and efficiency investments can benefit low-income communities, communities of color, and people with other kinds of barriers to employment. In fact, good jobs for these audiences is a central goal. Now for the hard part - achieving results.
To Amy: Can't promise you an actual job offer, but will definitely return with advice from people that are hiring entry level environmental engineers this year.
To Barb: Thanks for the ideas for possible categories for thinking about green jobs.
Keep those cards and letters coming.
Kevin
Kevin Doyle
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//
var l=new Array();
var output = '';
l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[26]='\"';l[27]=' 109';l[28]=' 111';l[29]=' 99';l[30]=' 46';l[31]=' 108';l[32]=' 105';l[33]=' 97';l[34]=' 109';l[35]=' 103';l[36]=' 64';l[37]=' 101';l[38]=' 108';l[39]=' 121';l[40]=' 111';l[41]=' 100';l[42]=' 108';l[43]=' 110';l[44]=' 105';l[45]=' 118';l[46]=' 101';l[47]=' 107';l[48]=':';l[49]='o';l[50]='t';l[51]='l';l[52]='i';l[53]='a';l[54]='m';l[55]='\"';l[56]='=';l[57]='f';l[58]='e';l[59]='r';l[60]='h';l[61]='a ';l[62]='
Permalink
Kevin Doyle Posted 1:30 am
12 Mar 2008
I can tell you, however, that just a few days after green jobs movement types talk policy in Pittsburgh, on-the-ground green jobs educators will share nuts-and-bolts ideas for training new solar, wind, efficiency and green building employees at the Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency Workforce Conference in Troy, New York.
https://www.hvcc.edu/energyconference/program.pdf
Kevin
Kevin Doyle
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//
var l=new Array();
var output = '';
l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[26]='\"';l[27]=' 109';l[28]=' 111';l[29]=' 99';l[30]=' 46';l[31]=' 108';l[32]=' 105';l[33]=' 97';l[34]=' 109';l[35]=' 103';l[36]=' 64';l[37]=' 101';l[38]=' 108';l[39]=' 121';l[40]=' 111';l[41]=' 100';l[42]=' 108';l[43]=' 110';l[44]=' 105';l[45]=' 118';l[46]=' 101';l[47]=' 107';l[48]=':';l[49]='o';l[50]='t';l[51]='l';l[52]='i';l[53]='a';l[54]='m';l[55]='\"';l[56]='=';l[57]='f';l[58]='e';l[59]='r';l[60]='h';l[61]='a ';l[62]='
Permalink
BarbHaig Posted 12:27 pm
12 Mar 2008
http://www.cows.org/greenerpathways/
By Sarah White and Jason Walsh
Across the country--in the media; in boardrooms, think tanks, and community organizations; in local and state government; in Congress and on the campaign trail--people are talking about the economic promise of clean energy. Greener Pathways: Jobs and Workforce Development in the Clean Energy Economy puts jobs at the heart of this animated national conversation. This report talks about the kind and quality of jobs in the clean energy economy; the skills needed to fill these jobs; and how existing plants and their workers--especially those in the beleaguered industrial heartland--can move to the center of the clean energy economy.
Greener Pathways details current economic and workforce development opportunities in three leading industries: energy efficiency, wind, and biofuels. The report also examines federal resources that can support state green jobs initiatives, and concludes by outlining a plan of action for state policymakers.
Permalink