Grist in Outside magazine
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Posted 6:22 AM on 20 Mar 2007
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JMG Posted 1:41 am
20 Mar 2007
Debauched
Yikes, I will sure miss having an environmental site that's not selling stuff.
If I read that right you're just going to become another "Real Simple" or "UTNE" magazine, devoted to selling people environmental good feelings through more consumption.
Sad. I guess the feature on car interiors was just the first shot ...
What did Chomsky say about the corruption of the media by advertisers? Something like "It's hard to get too worked up about it when they seem to like it so much."
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Tom Philpott Posted 2:14 am
20 Mar 2007
come on, dude...
...don't enviro journalists get to eat, too? Who else is going to pay the bills?
I don't think people fully understand the resource constraints that alternative pubs like Grist operate under. Magazines like the Nation and the New Republic are legendary for the deficits they generate every year, financed by prestige-seeking rich guys. (TNR, which sold out to neoliberalism decades ago, just sold out to a corporation, meaning that it will now have to be profitable, btw).
I'm sure if some rich person wanted to float Grist, management would be happy not to sell ads. Any takers?
The test of Grist, like any other self-respecting pub, will be its ability to separate editorial from advertising. I, for one, hope the greenbacks from companies peddling green goods come rolling in -- so that I'll have more resources to raise as much hell as possible.
Victual Reality
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sunflower Posted 2:40 am
20 Mar 2007
Down Browser
Use Firefox browser with images and java disabled and the ads just go away.
750,000 pairs of eyeballs is really big for such a small hungry crew.
Grist gets the exclusive when I have ground-breaking news. Happy vernal equinox!
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Roz Cummins Posted 3:39 am
20 Mar 2007
Why I support Grist taking ads...
If Grist can support itself in part with advertising they should go for it. As Tom says, the key is to maintain the editorial/advertising separation. That's the important thing.
I've spent most of my life working for non-profits and I can attest that it's very hard to find work that one cares about that also pays enough to meet basic needs, let alone to have savings or luxuries. I would like very much for the Grist staff not to find themselves having to make hard choices about whether to go or to stay for financial reasons, and if advertising can help to make up that gap then I'm all for it. (For clarification, I am not a staff member, I am a contributing writer.)
Also, while advertising rarely persuades me to buy anything (largely because I can never remember which ad is for which product -- I am an advertiser's nightmare) I am sometimes interested to see what exists out there that I don't already know about, and I am assuming that the kinds of products that might be advertised on Grist might be things in which I'd be interested.
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caniscandida Posted 3:42 am
20 Mar 2007
Canada puns?
When I recovered from my swoon -- images of grim, fair-haired young men in glasses wielding power tools generally have that effect on me -- , I found this article by Tim Dickinson to be an excellent consolation on a cold damp day. Mazal tov! Too bad Tom Philpott and Umbra Fisk did not get mentioned by name, though.
So DR and Lisa Hymas prattle on like seven-year-old twins? How charming. Their co-workers must be overjoyed. No doubt when they go home in the evening, they cannot wait to tell their family and friends, "Oh, you will never guess what darling things that David and Lisa said today!"
Also: Actually, it would be kind of cool if Jesus Christ showed up and cleaned a river. Chances are, of course, that is not likely to happen any time soon, unless the date is April 1 ...
Chickens are our cousins! So are other sensitive animals! Enough is enough! No more factory farms!
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Erik Hoffner Posted 4:29 am
20 Mar 2007
THAT is what David Roberts looks like?
He looks smarter than Chip. And Chip looks more manly. You guys, duke it out. Congrats! Good to see your great work praised in Outside.
The Orion Grassroots Network: 1000+ grassroots groups working for conservation & more
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Jason D Scorse Posted 4:39 am
20 Mar 2007
Nice!!
Great stuff. You deserve to eat too! Make all the $$ you can. I'm sure you'll do it an ecologically conscious way.
J.S.
I teach environmental economics and blog at www.voicesofreason.info. I am a proud liberal, who stands on the shoulders of giants.
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Baby Boomer Posted 5:41 am
20 Mar 2007
Dave hasn't changed his look
I knew him when he was knee high to a grasshopper, and he had that look then. It made him look like a wise, thoughtful baby, and I think the look still works for him.
I'm loving the recognition Grist is getting. You've made being environmentally aware just much more fun than it has been in 20 years or so.
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jwebb Posted 6:43 am
20 Mar 2007
The New, Amazing, Powerful, 2.0
C'mon, 2.0? Even Bill Gates has moved past the whole version number thing. I'm a bit lost as to what's green, funny, or interesting about that picture (looking hard for an electric chainsaw, or safety equipment). It reminds me more of an attempt to recreate a Trey Parker/Matt Stone photo shoot. I'm always a skeptic when someone takes their base for granted in looking for new readers/clickers. An example is Mother Earth News which has moved so far away from a simple living and do-it-yourself magazine to a "buy this for your suburban farm" mag where I (still a subscriber) probably don't read half the content anymore, but maybe I'm just part of the "historic hippy aspect". While my local NPR fund drive is underway this week, I now feel a whole lot better about listening to their long pitches knowing their content will never be weighted against advertising.
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wren7 Posted 8:12 am
20 Mar 2007
Congrats!
You guys deserve the recognition. I long ago stopped reading most of the other environmental sites because it was just too depressing (especially taken together with the current political environment and news). Honestly, I just couldn't take it any more. But I kept my subscription to Daily Grist because it always makes me laugh while I stay up to date with what's happening in the environment. The headlines sometimes make me laugh out loud. Very clever staff.
I say, as a nonprofit, if you guys need the funds from advertising then go for it. I hope you'll use the same care in choosing what ads to accept as you do in your reporting and trust that you will. If it means that your talented, dedicated staff won't be forced to decide whether to stay at Grist or take a better paying job elsewhere because you have more funds available for salaries, then I'm all for it.
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wiscidea Posted 9:14 am
20 Mar 2007
THAT is what David Roberts looks like?
Chip looks a bit maniacal. At least he is wearing glasses. But he might want to consider finding some additional protective gear.
David, however, looks a little uncomfortable out in the "wilderness". Might explain some of his posts.
Forward!
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David Roberts Posted 9:19 am
20 Mar 2007
Is it that obvious?
www.grist.org
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Robert Delfs Posted 12:47 pm
20 Mar 2007
Laissez les bonnes temps roulez!
Excellent points about the evils of advertising, y'all. But here's a thought. Let's focus on immediate environmental threats to the planet for awhile. Once that's taken care of, we can shift our attention to ending the twin scourges of capitalism and global imperialism.
Also sexism, racism, age-ism, itchy synthetic fabrics, Velveeta cheese, "Danke shoen and Why, why, why? Delilah?" (anything relating to Wayne Newton or Tom Jones, actually), terrorism, and terroir-ism (sidewise or otherwise - "Que Syrah syrah").
We're all deeply saddened that Gristmill is selling out to "feel good" environmentalism, of course. Hybrid SUVs. Forcing coal mine owners to offer an organic vegetarian lunch alternative to their employees. Making Al Gore iron his own shirts and bicycle all the way from his mansion to the private jet terminal in Nashville.
But, hey! Could it have been me who jumped on someone for praising college kids who were selling t-shirts and coffee mugs with "green" messages on them. Well, I was wrong. Deeply, terribly wrong. And I'm sorry.
P.S. I was surprised to see what David Roberts looks like, too. I somehow thought he would be, well, older.
P.P.S. Are Chip Giller's boots made from leather???
Robert Delfs
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amazingdrx Posted 10:35 pm
20 Mar 2007
DR needs to workout
Very chubby. They both need a radical makeover sporting clothing advertised in "Outside".
Demand a man-sized Stihl chainsaw next photo shoot. Or bring your own.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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amazingdrx Posted 10:37 pm
20 Mar 2007
Cantankerous
No wonder Dave is in such a tyrannical mood most of the time. Dragging around all that extra weight.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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rainking Posted 12:01 am
21 Mar 2007
fun?
According to the Outside story, this site is supposed to be fun and funny. Yet today on the front page i read my car is killing me. If that doesn't do it coal will (again, right there on the front page). or the climate. or etc. Um, what's fun about this? Oh well, Outside rarely gets stuff right. Here's yet another example.
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Robert Delfs Posted 2:17 am
21 Mar 2007
If you can't take a joke..
Um, I can see the idea that your car's "new car" fumes is killing you may not be that funny to you.
Robert Delfs
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Biodiversivist Posted 3:27 pm
21 Mar 2007
There is this thing called human nature
To succeed we have to acknowledge its existence. Given the opportunity, healthy, normal human beings will strive to look good in the eyes of their peers.
Ever ask yourself why eyeglasses, hair, clothing and everything else are always in a constant state of change, depending on things like your age and social circle? This isn't just an American thing, it is universal, eyeglasses being replaced with lip discs depending on your culture.
We may not like it, but we are stuck with it. The only way out of this is to provide people a means of fulfilling their nature in environmentally benign ways. Sex can be decoupled from reproduction without sexual abstinence. Status seeking can be decoupled from environmental destruction without status abstinence also, by redefining status symbols and using increasingly environmentally benign technologies.
The idea is slowly sinking in. I for one am very glad Grist is breaking the mold. Old environmentalists didn't go away, they just grew up, bought rural acreage on islands or houses in cities and started families, as is only natural. The old environmentalist dogma calling for status abstinence was a dead end strategy. Look around you, and then go look at your high school year books.
Below we have a younger Giller, reflecting his peer group, which was based on his age and the economic bracket he was born into:
http://www.grist.org/etc/gristlist/2006/03/03/chip_giller_150.jpg
I just hope nobody finds my senior picture and posts it.
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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JMG Posted 11:51 pm
22 Mar 2007
One and the same
Delfs wrote: "Excellent points about the evils of advertising, y'all. But here's a thought. Let's focus on immediate environmental threats to the planet for awhile. Once that's taken care of, we can shift our attention to ending the twin scourges of capitalism and global imperialism."
OK, let's focus on the immediate environmental threats: profligate waste, destruction of irreplaceable natural resources, relentless evisceration of the food web on land and sea, rising levels of greenhouse gases being dumped into the atmosphere, wars conducted solely to secure access to petroleum, and the failure of liberal democracies to fashion an effective response to all of the above, thanks to being totally owned by the private interests who benefit from the existing policies.
In other words, capitalism and global imperialism (but you repeat yourself) ARE the immediate threats to the environment.
Like a chainsaw or a bulldozer, capitalism is an efficient tool, but a stupid one capable of great destruction, and it must be carefully and thoughtfully constrained in order to exist in a finite biosphere without rendering that biosphere uninhabitable.
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Biodiversivist Posted 12:27 am
23 Mar 2007
JMG
I tend to agree with most of what you said but would change the word constrained to directed, and the problem isn't capitalism. The soviet union and China wrecked their ecosystems long before they had free markets. Now take a look at India, an agrarian society with a free market that has also managed to destroy its ecosystems. The rivers in China and India are open sewers.
So obviously, blaming our problems on Capitalism is simplistic and getting dog eared.
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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peakoilboy Posted 7:44 am
23 Mar 2007
Advertising in the Age of Peak Energy
First and foremost, so long as eco/green/enviro products cost more than cheaper, more convenient alternatives, getting the mainstream to make purchases is a long battle to slog through.
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wiscidea Posted 8:02 am
27 Mar 2007
Advertising
I MIGHT have to stop visiting the Grist website.
I know the Grist folks have to make a living. I know I should send a check this moment so you don't have to resort to prostitution. But I also don't think my contribution will prevent the ads from showing up on my screen. And this, in a convoluted way, is why the ads might drive me away from this website. I'm already gloomy. Not much optimism that the human species will be able to solve the climate change problem. Not much optimism that good will prevail over evil. Not much confidence that reason will prevail over blind faith. I can't afford to donate money to more conservation organizations. And I have trouble belieiving that anything I can do -- or anyone reading this can do -- will really make much difference in the grand scheme of things.
Why? Because of people like the guy who is about to kill the baby seal. Seeing that ad every time I check out the Grist blog is so depressing I just want to give up. It is a constant reminder that not even the simplest problems can be solved. People can't be persuaded to stop killing baby seals for fur. How is somebody supposed to prevent them from engaging in all of the less-direct harm inflicted on animals or the entire biosphere? How does one stop a person who is willing to club a helpless seal from incinerating the globe if it will bring in a little extra cash in the short-run?
I want to love my fellow humans, but I can't feel anything but hate toward the guy in the ad. And I have to return to wondering, what's the point of trying to defeat him and everyone like him?
Unfortunately, the Grist website is addictive and I probably won't stop visiting. But I don't know whether others share this view. I don't know how they're reacting. However, I thought you might want to know, so I'm posting this comment.
Foward! I guess... probably... whatever.
Forward!
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sunflower Posted 8:28 am
27 Mar 2007
Wiscidea --
That sounds horrible, wow, I'm sure glad I have 'Load Images' and 'Enable Java' turned OFF. Mozilla Firefox browser gives me protection from ads.
Too many people have locked themselves into their cabins. We need everybody on deck. We can do it. I see it in the numbers.
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onechild Posted 1:02 am
04 Apr 2007
Outside Mag -Green Issue
Outside missed the boat, forgeting that the more people on the earth the more of an impact. Conservation begins at home ONECHILD per family. How? End all tax credits for kids. Mandate a policy of free heath care to those wishing to cease having kids.
LESS KIDS LESS IMPACT ON THE WORLD.
?Think about it?
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