What’s the best balance of green and cheap? 15

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1. 

   tfahrner Posted 6:07 am
   20 Oct 2006

   what's your budget per square foot?we got cork remnants/end lots pretty cheap, installed and finished ourselves, no regrets but some serious backache and a few amateur goof spots.

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2. 

   willa Posted 6:08 am
   20 Oct 2006

   tile?I personally love tile.  It doesn't have to be expensive, either, although of course it can be.  If locally manufactured, it's pretty environmentally friendly, although of course firing uses energy (fyi:  the harder the tile, the more energy used to fire it, so porcelain uses the most, while soft tiles like Mexican talavera and saltillo use the least).  It lasts virtually forever, though, and mostly is low-to-no maintenance, which makes it more green over its lifespan despite higher initial embodied energy.  You can install it yourself if you're ambitious, although it's certainly harder work than installing, say, laminate.  It won't cushion your kids' falls like cork or other somewhat-soft floors, but they can't tear, burn, stain, or gouge it without real effort, either.
   It looks like these folks could help you locally, and they mention getting tile from local manufacturers.  
   If you're willing to ship stuff a little farther, I highly recommend Mexican tile (not just because I used to sell it), especially if you're installing it yourself, because the variety in size and shape (low-fired handmade tiles don't all come out perfectly square, and shrinkage can be uneven) means no one will notice if you don't get everything perfect.  pre-sealed saltillo is pretty easy to work with, and un-sealed is cheaper but a bit of a pain since you have to seal it pre-grouting to prevent grout from adhering to the top.  The sealers are fairly low-VOC but do need to be re-done every few years, unless you're like me and you let it go for so long you decide you like the way it looks with all the sealer worn off (but it's very porous and stains easily that way).  For bedrooms and bathrooms, talavera (low-fired glazed earthenware, like majolica) is lovely, but it won't take a lot of shod foot traffic before the glaze starts to scratch.  The patterns are gorgeous, though, and can also be used for baseboards and other edging with saltillo to add some color.  I recommend artesanos, because I know that they have a good product and are good people (in other words, I'm biased :) ).
   If longevity doesn't impress you vs. providing a minimally-injurious surface to bounce children off of, what about linoleum?  No, not vinyl, the real stuff.  Here.  Not terribly local, but pretty, low maintenance, natural, soft-ish, easy to install, and naturally mildly anti-microbial, too!  Oh, and trendy, natch.
   Also, don't know if you know about this Seattle source for green products?

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3. 

   willa Posted 6:09 am
   20 Oct 2006

   ArtesanosPS--if you do decide to go with Mexican tile for part of the house, let me know, I'll be more than happy to help you decide what you need to order.  The trim pieces and whatnot can be confusing, and the patterns even more so if you use patterned pieces.  I am a tile-design geek, though. :)

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4. 

   kmp Posted 6:35 am
   20 Oct 2006

   FlooredWell, if you did a search of Grist, you would find that Umbra did indeed answer this question back in February.
   Of course, she mentions the obvious cork, bamboo, etc.
   I have heard that you can get pieced wood flooring, that you put together like a big jigsaw puzzle... cheap, because it is endpieces that otherwise get thrown away, green for the same reason, and I think the overall effect is pretty cool, like a chess board.  Of course, there is a specific name for this, which escapes me.
   I'm a big fan of hardwood floors, myself, but I'm assuming FSC certified wood is pretty expensive.
   As for carpets, I have a flokati rug in the living room that I love.  Totally cozy, all natural wool - it doesn't vacuum very well, so I just shake it out once a month or so, and best of all, stains won't stick to the wool fibers. I can't tell you how many glasses of red wine have been spilled on it and there are no stains - it just rinses right off.  I don't know if there is anywhere to order a room-sized one (like wall-to-wall) but they are a really inexpensive option for a non-toxic carpet.

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5. 

   JMG Posted 6:45 am
   20 Oct 2006

   Find the moneyI am disappointed to hear you suggest that whenever money is tight--and when isn't money tight--sustainability goes overboard.
   I suggest that instead of folding on getting a sustainable floor, you try this first.
   Figure out why you think there were "hardwood floors" throughout--were you told this by the buyer?  The Realtor(R)?  Was it in any printed materials (bonus if so).  Write down what you were told, who told you, dates if you can, and any promotional material.  If you have a copy of the MLS listing saying "hardwood floors" or similar that is very good to have.
   Then contact an attorney.  Many states have good law on misrepresentation, particularly in the real estate setting.  Most small practitioners will happily give you a half-hour free consultation and will readily tell you if your facts warrant further action.  
   If you don't know one, contact the state or county bar association and ask for the attorney referral service; ask for one experienced in representing consumers.  Or look in the phone book for "Attorneys-Consumer Law."
   You have been ripped off.  Don't rip off the planet by letting the seller get away with a serious misrepresentation.  It may take nothing more than a letter from a competent attorney to your seller to get you the money needed to get the floor done right with a sustainable material.
   If you are adverse to using an attorney to assert your rights, consider going to small claims court, where you represent yourself.  File a claim for the amount it will cost you to get a proper floor installed; if it is less than the limit for small claims court you will find that the process can be effective.
   Most people selling a house today have made a bundle on it, even if it is selling as a rundown "fixer upper."  There is no good reason to let a seller take the money and run through a misrepresentation of what you are buying.
   (Of course, this also demonstrates the value of a thorough home inspection under a contingency in the offer . . . .)

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6. 

   kmp Posted 7:01 am
   20 Oct 2006

   PineThen there is this on Mother Earth news, which talks about how to purchase and install a pine floor on a budget.  No mention of FSC wood, though....  
   And here is an interesting comparison from the Minnesota Green Housing Guide.

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7. 

   Brendon Smyth Posted 7:23 am
   20 Oct 2006

   Second UseThis south Seattle store often has great deals on used or left over product, although their flooring looks to be picked over as of now.  You can check their inventory online. They constantly get "new" materials, so keep checking.
   http://www.seconduse.com

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8. 

   mfg Posted 4:45 pm
   21 Oct 2006

   flooring questHow about FSC solid wood flooring for $2.99/sq ft, or wool carpet for less then $4.00/sq ft.? Take a look at environmentalhomecenter.com in seattle.

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9. 

   Biodiversivist Posted 3:14 am
   23 Oct 2006

   Use a mixtureSofwood floors don't wear well. Hardwood lasts about three quarters of a century and can be viewed as a carbon sink! Think of it as solar powered flooring. If it comes from certified forest products, you can't really go wrong. It sure beats a forest fire.
   Consider slate, stone, and tile in all the usual places. They are beautiful, last forever and be sure to buy extra to store so you can repair damaged pieces. Throw rugs keep them warm under foot.
   Carpet works fine in most places and will always be the cheapest option.
   Don't lose any sleep over your decisions. Whatever you do will likely be torn out by the next owner anyway, as you are doing. Houses are not static. The house I grew up in bears little resemblance to its original design and this is pretty typical. People are like beavers. We have an urge to build ourselves a place to live and alter the environment around us. At least we can pick how we alter it.
   
   In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

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10. 

    willa Posted 3:16 am
    24 Oct 2006

    Change is inevitableBioD,
    
    That is so true.  Hardly a building out there looks the way it did even a couple of decades ago!  Things you would think were totally permanent are totally not.
    That said, I think both hardwood and well-done tile are likely to be kept until they need replacing, whereas carpet is guaranteed to be ripped out, probably in only a few years.  Linoleum is a middle ground; it can last up to 40 years, but it's not everyone's taste (because it's been so terribly cheapened by vinyl flooring, which is awful in every way), so it may get ripped out when you sell the house (unless you plan on staying there till you die, and actually stick to the plan).
    One thing with tile:  If you do what the previous owner of my house did and tile the kitchen floor without replacing the cabinetry (which was dumb because the cabinetry is falling-apart crap), you will have virtually no choice but to tile around, rather than under.  When you sell the house and someone remodels the kitchen, they will want the cabinets configured differently, and unless you've left enough of it to fill in the gaps, it will be far easier for them to just tear the whole thing up and start over (and even then, they may see the remodel as an opportunity to get rid of your tile, which they will hate).
    I'd also like to put in a good word for quarry tile.  It got to be viewed as yucky and industrial because it was used in a lot of restaurant kitchens, service entrances, etc, but that's because it's really, really durable and non-slip.  Basically, it's a high-fired, unglazed tile that's usually some shade of brick red/brown.  If you like the color, it can't be beat in terms of durability and maintenance-free serviceability, and I really like the way it looks, precisely because it's not glazed.  Like most of the other materials I like (natural linoleum, for instance), it's the same color and texture all the way through, so if it gets chipped, you don't suddenly see that the clay body is a totally different color than the glaze, making repair impossible and the chip highly visible.
    Of course, if you ask a tile salesman about it, you'll likely get funny looks.  Ignore them.  Or, shop at Home Depot (no, not really!), where they stock it and no one notices or cares what you're buying.

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11. 

    sunflower Posted 3:38 am
    24 Oct 2006

    Burning the house for home heat.That is a good question.  Is the house sustainable?  Does the floor matter if the big bad wolf blows it down?  (Actually a bad metaphor as I love wolves.)
    Global warming may make comfortable house heat not sustainable due to a carbon constrained economy or due to a collapsed civilization (possibly the negative feedback loop we are ignoring).  
    The question -- like cars, will our homes need to be replaced with super efficient passive solar homes?
    
    

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12. 

    willa Posted 4:13 am
    24 Oct 2006

    Will houses need ot be replaced?No, absolutely not.  Almost every house can be made energy-efficient enough that it's a net loss to tear it down and start over.  Some large houses are only reasonable as multi-family homes, but they can be divided up pretty easily.
    Solar thermal panels can make any house "passive solar", basically.  All you need is south-facing roof.  Yes, it's a major retrofit, but it can be done almost anywhere.
    Destruction of houses that don't suit us anymore--either from a fashion/appearance standpoint or from an energy-efficiency one--is a big part of what got us in the fix we're in now.  Loss of historic buildings has led to ever more destructive practices, and more demolition will absolutely not help that.
    Btw, I'm a grad student in a historic preservation program, so I might be a teensy bit biased, but I also study this stuff all the time, so I hope I have more factual knowledge of it than the average person (else I'm wasting an awful lot of money and effort!).

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13. 

    sunflower Posted 5:00 am
    24 Oct 2006

    Wood buildings in NW forest landYes, I too am an optimist that we can save history.  Urban buildings can be retrofitted with district heating.  
    I suspect Dave's house is out in the Puget Sound suburbia, and likely can be recycled if unsustainable.  The floor may have a lifetime.

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14. 

    rediska Posted 3:30 pm
    12 Jan 2008

    pre-finished vs unfinished- experts please help!we are in the process of chosing hardwood floors for our new(to us) house. beyond choosing a local supplier and a FSC wood, does anybody know which flooring is less toxic (have a child with very sensitive lungs,CF)- pre-finished (with aluminum oxide) or unfinished (would use water-based varnish)? we are not living in the house in question at the moment, so dust and fumes during the sanding and varnishing are not much of a concern. Let's say a week to a month after the floor is installed- which one off-gasses more, a freshly varnished (water base) or long ago factory finished (aluminum oxide)? in terms of durability, there's no question, the factory finish wins. any advice?

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15. 

    Kelly Point Partners Posted 12:37 pm
    20 Jan 2008

    Has anyone used Madrone for flooring?I know I'm adding to an old posting, but I'm looking for reviews on reclaimed madrone flooring that I hope to get from Ecohaus (formerly Environmental Home Center).  I like the look of the flooring, its sustainable wood, and hard as nails... important for this dog-friendly household.  But two woodworkers  that I know and trust both winced when I mentioned madrone.  They say that madrone is hard to work with, seldom comes in flat usable lengths, and splits easily.  So now I'm less sure.  Has anyone used, or seen, madrone floors? How do they look? Do they hold up well?  HELP!
    
    Paul Beaudet
    
    Kelly Point Partner
    
    Guemes Island, WA

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