According to Wired. 6

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1. 

   jdhlax Posted 5:18 pm
   06 Jan 2006

   A Better ReasonThey will destroy natural areas.  Why not solar panels on every roof and/or windmills on every property?  We don't need big projects.  Big is almost always bad.
   
   Jeff Hoffman

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2. 

   Daniel Posted 5:01 am
   07 Jan 2006

   Bird/Bat killsAlso, the potential for bird and bat mortalities associated with their migrations, is a concern.  Research is being done to better understand how wind farms in specific locations, heights, arrangements of turbines, etc., would effect these wildlife, but one thing is for sure: dozens of birds are sometimes killed each night during peak migration periods of the year.  

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3. 

   Vincenze Posted 5:44 pm
   07 Jan 2006

   Local Energy SolutionsI agree with Jeff that local energy solutions will be the way of the future, that is, if we ever hope to attain a reasonable level of sustainability and self-sufficiency.  This local energy solution approach can be applied for other resources as well such as water, via home water tanks.
   So large wind farms might not be such a good idea, though not for the top 5 reasons listed.  Surely a does of the bigger picture for the relevant parties wouldn't go astray.
   Vincenze.

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4. 

   amazingdrx Posted 2:38 am
   08 Jan 2006

   NIMBYs! Make siting decisions vital!There are no signifigant numbers of wind power NIMBYs in North Dakota, for instance.
   Yes jd...home, farm, and small business based wind and solar can go a long way towards ending combustion and nuclear based energy as we know and despise it.
   But to supply the rest of the energy needed to power the economy, wind farms and industrial solar installations are much preferable to oil, coal, natural gas, and nuclear power.
   Site them away from the hordes of NIMBYs on the coasts and the problem is solved.   Even further offshore would work fine also.  Outa sight, outa mind.
   Keep butting heads over installations in scenic natural areas like the cape wind project or retired GOP voter's vacation homes and watch Darth cheney and his neocorporate minions gloat with glee.
   Environmentalists are letting the evil forces of darkness (mwhahahaha..think Sauron and his orcan armies) divide and conquer US as usual.
   Darth "Sauron" Cheney is dreaming of nuclear powered coal refineries from sea to blackened, rising sea.  Let the coal oil power those SUVs forever!!  Until the nuclear powered hydrogen economy powers them.  

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5. 

   jdhlax Posted 2:11 pm
   08 Jan 2006

   Consider More Than Humans"[W]ind farms and industrial solar installations are much preferable to oil, coal, natural gas, and nuclear power.  Site them away from the hordes of NIMBYs on the coasts and the problem is solved.   Even further offshore would work fine also.  Outa sight, outa mind."
   I obviously agree that wind and solar are better than more destructive forms of energy.  The wind farms and industrial solar installations you propose should replace the other energy sources and be put in the same places, not destroy other natural areas.
   Re your comment about out of sight, out of mind, just because humans aren't affected by the noise and visual blight doesn't mean other creatures aren't.  The exact opposite of what you propose should be done if these things are to be built: they should be built exactly where the energy demand is.  If people had to pay a price for gluttonously using so much unnatural energy, they'd use less of it.  More importantly, the species that reaps the benefits of the energy generated should also bear the negative consequences.  I strongly oppose wind farms or industrial solar plants away from where humans are.
   Actually, a much better solution would be to limit the amount of energy that any household or company may use.  A rational cap would be the amount that could be produced at the site added to what is produce within the political boundary (neighborhood, town, etc.).
   
   Jeff Hoffman

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6. 

   amazingdrx Posted 8:36 pm
   08 Jan 2006

   Pretty good concept jd!"limit the amount of energy that any household or company may use.  A rational cap would be the amount that could be produced at the site added to what is produce within the political boundary"
   An interesting and unique idea.
   Personally I think small scale solar, wind, and water power would power my idea of balance, humankind living within it's means in symbiosis with the natural world.  
   Enough EXTRA power could be conserved and generated, over and above local needs, to make those areas already blighted by industrial and agribizz destruction provide enough space for industrial energy uses.  
   Land devestated by chemical agriculture is many, many times the area needed for wind and solar on land.  And offshore installations can be justified from an environmental stance by their prevention of the use of pond nets that are destroying life in the ocean.
   Would it be possible to achieve that state of grace given the virulence of the human infection?  
   I say we go for it.  Prove the concept works and fight the hopeless poltical and cultural odds to make that the new norm.
   Is there any better hopeless crusade to join?  Nope.  Onward!

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