Prius easily beats Hummer in lifecycle energy use; ‘Dust to Dust’ report has no basis in fact 15

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1. 

   nedruod Posted 2:24 pm
   27 Aug 2007

   All too commonCounterintuitive "Lifecycle" analysis seems to the current trademark of anyone who has a reason to dislike X or Y green solution/alternative.
   I've had the same kinds of comments about CFL's popup up quite often.  It's likewise ridiculous to suggest that a product sold for $3, and recycled for another $3 actually uses more energy in production/recycling than the $60 in energy from a wall socket it will over it's life save.
   I am pretty sure the reason this tactic is so popular is because it allows the opposition to pose as green rather than the "opposition", and thus disguise their true motives.

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2. 

   Pangolin Posted 4:58 pm
   27 Aug 2007

   Gotcher methodology right here....It's aluminum, it holds about 15 gallons, attracts red plastic cups and frat boys.
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keg
   Coinkidincally it also contains the source methodology for "clean coal," "cheap nuclear power," and "reducing our dependence on oil imports through expansion of biofuels." It's the conservative wishful thinkers best friend.
   Just make sure the guy who can type stays sober so you can take notes.
   
   Put the Carbon Back

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3. 

   Delay And Deny Posted 5:32 pm
   27 Aug 2007

   Prius Is More Complicated
   
   There are some basic things about the Prius that I think could account for its higher lifetime costs.
   First of all -- it has two engines.  A gas engine and an electric engine.   Even the most eco aware person must see that that kind of redundancy can lead to problems.
   Obviously with two engines, and all the needed drive train machinery and the computers to switch them back and forth -- well, there's gonna be problems.
   Also, the point of the Prius is that it excels being at stuck in traffic.   That's basically what it's designed for.   But the moment you take it up to highway speeds, watch out -- it's a gas guzzler!  
   Contrast that with a Hummer owner who may live in a suburban rural area with low traffic -- he's gonna be doing 40+ all day long.  
   The other thing is that small is not always beautiful.  Small parts, higher reving engines, small wheelbases, tend to create more brittleness and higher wear.   A big old Hummer will absorb the tension better.
   
   John Bailo
   
   
   Sutext:

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4. 

   trock Posted 9:25 pm
   27 Aug 2007

   scarywow, what a comparison.   You're wrong on most everything you say.
   Prius has a gas engine and an electric motor.   electric motors are 10 time simpler and more reliable than a gas engine.    The more unreliable gas engine runs less and thus break downs less than in a regular car because the reliable electric motor runs alone more often.
   The electronics are more complicated, but its Toyota of which I would have more confidence in than GM's Hummer.  
   I could see that you wouldn't want the Hummer in traffic, much better for off road use.
   I also know about a rich 16 year old kid who got a Hummer from his parents and within a short time ran over and killed a women who was running on the side of the road.  To big a vehicle?   could've been run over by a prius, sure, but the size and bad visibility of the hummer with an inexperienced driver is a bad combination.
   Bigger is safer.   but for the people in the big vehicle.  for everybody else, it can be a danger.  
   kind of curious why a prius can't be driven in a suburban rural area and how a Hummer is going to get mileage in the 40's.   But I'm pretty much confused and astonished by everything you write, which is your real intent I'm sure.

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5. 

   GreenMom Posted 10:46 pm
   27 Aug 2007

   Prius is not a highway guzzlerThe Prius is not a gas guzzler at high speeds.  I've driven more highway miles than you would believe in my Prius, and it has never averaged less than 45 mpg, measured either per trip, per tankful, per short or long hop on the highway, or any other way you please.

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6. 

   Delay And Deny Posted 2:29 am
   28 Aug 2007

   Aveo -- Why Carry Around 2 engines?
   
   It's great that you can get 40-50 mpg with a Prius.
   However, a Chevy Aveo -- much cheaper and simpler -- gets 38 mpg.
   http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/02/20/037740.html ...
   Even at today's high fuel prices, it seems to me the Aveo would be just as "green" and yet better for the consumer in terms of price and simplicity of repair.
   Also, it's not carrying around a lot of batteries with their toxic materials.
   
   John Bailo
   
   
   Sutext:

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7. 

   Matt G Posted 3:12 am
   28 Aug 2007

   AveroAccording to your link gets 27/37 manual, 25/34 automatic.  That's great.  Good for them.  I support anything better than standard efficiency.  But the Prius gets 45/48.  And this is just the first generation - future models will likely land higher or even use no fuel during a commute (plug-in hybrids).  
   So I'm missing your argument.  Batteries are much worse than burning fuel?  Maybe, but you'd have to convince me of that.

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8. 

   spj911 Posted 4:57 am
   28 Aug 2007

   math ?'sSo can you please provide a bit more elaboration on if US energy costs are 7-8% of GDP than it follows that a durable good has a associated energy cost of 7-8%?  I'm not trying to be a smart a$$. I'm just trying to understand your logic and thought process. Some products obviously take way more energy to produce than others. Can you cite any other studies not linked to proving or disproving this one that used your "rule of thumb" about associated energy costs?  If reputabel ones exist, I can move on.
   Of course, explanation your logic and thought process will provide insight as to how willing we are to accept or refute the rest of your methods of debunking the "study". Please also explain how your rule of thumb could or could not be used to conclude that by 2015 20% of the cost of a vehicle an be attributed to health care which is estimated at that time to be 20% of GDP. Then there is the cost of crime associated to GDP... (real or imagined in the case of a Hummer... OK now I AM being a smart a$$).

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9. 

   Delay And Deny Posted 7:06 am
   28 Aug 2007

   Hybrid...Schmybrid! We Got Free HEngineers perfecting hydrogen-generating technology
   http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/pu-eph0827 ...
   WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - Researchers at Purdue University have further developed a technology that could represent a pollution-free energy source for a range of potential applications, from golf carts to submarines and cars to emergency portable generators.
   
   John Bailo
   
   
   Sutext:

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10. 

    rjwright Posted 7:24 am
    28 Aug 2007

    Thanks for debunking this nonsenseIt is indeed surprising how many times this nonsense has found it's way into various publications and how often those of us who own and drive the Prius have to defend our choice of automobile.  I'll grant you the original report doesn't give one much to work with other than frightening (and unsupported) conclusions.  Being a simple sort of fellow, I approached it in a simple sort of way.  I began to wonder who was actually paying for all this energy my driving a Prius was inflicting on society.  If I drive my 2005 Prius for 100,000 miles, to keep the math simple, then at $3.25 a mile, somebody is going to be picking up a tab for $325,000.  I knew it wasn't going to be me, because my car only cost $26,000 (I got the fancy one with navigation).  I have been getting a consistent 48 mpg and haven't had to spend but a few dollars on routine service, so when was that big bill going to arrive and who was it being sent to?  
    I finally decided that someone had made a mistake somewhere and I was comfortable that it wasn't me, so I have now felt secure enough to leave the house in my Prius, confident that I didn't need to trade it in on a Hummer after all:)
    Thanks again
    Randal

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11. 

    GreyFlcn Posted 8:10 am
    28 Aug 2007

    Joseph Rommre: Jabailo OMG HYDROGEN!
    Perhaps you should read this book.
    
    I've heard good things about the author :P
    
    

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12. 

    Biodiversivist Posted 8:16 am
    28 Aug 2007

    This paragraph cracked me up..."I am mocking this report because it is the most contrived and mistake-filled study I have ever seen -- by far (and that's saying a lot, since I worked for the federal government for five years). I am not certain there is an accurate calculation in the entire report. I say this without fear of contradiction, because this is also the most opaque study I have ever seen -- by far. I defy anyone to figure out their methodology."
    Go to autobloggreen for more.
    
    In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

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13. 

    racc Posted 8:19 am
    28 Aug 2007

    It Does't Really MatterUsing neither a Hummer or Prius is sustainable. If everyone in China had a Prius, we would all be in a lot of trouble. The solution is to invest resources in public transit and cycling facilities. Because Priuses cost less to operate, they will likely encourage people to drive more, creating more congestion on our already overcrowded highways.
    With bridges and roads all around America crumbing, we cann't even seem to gather enough resources to repair what we have let alone build more. Rail infrastructure can move a lot more people and it takes up a lot less space.
    The age of the automobile is over. Hybrids only serve to prolong the agony.
    Richard

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14. 

    Delay And Deny Posted 9:03 am
    28 Aug 2007

    Baby, Baby, Baby You're out of time...Romm's book:
    "updated in 2005"
    2005?
    That's like the 1820's (Little Ice Age) at the rate of progress in hydrogen generation technology.
    Anyone working from references in 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003 when it comes to energy technology is
    "Obsolete my baby...my poor discarded baby...I said Baby, Baby, Baby you're out of taaahhhhmmmmm!!"
    
    John Bailo
    
    
    Sutext:

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15. 

    rsmith02 Posted 6:33 am
    29 Aug 2007

    Not impressed"2005?
    That's like the 1820's at the rate of progress in hydrogen generation technology."
    Are you even attempting to convince anyone of your point of view?  I'm not impressed with your comments on the Prius or hydrogen.  Try citing some sources to support your argument.

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