Dear Umbra,
Recently, I've started to try to avoid plastics (especially plastic water bottles). For Christmas, my brother gave me a Camelbak-type water bottle. How safe is this? I assume it's as bad as most plastic water bottles.
Timothy Kearney
Issaquah, Wash.
Dearest Timothy,
Gifting quandary alert.
But does it suck?
Photo: iStockphoto
Not all plastic water bottles are equal. In a larger context of avoiding plastic, we may occasionally find ourselves with a plastic bottle that is handy and use it for a while. There are certain exceptions: We should try to completely avoid polyvinyl chloride, PVC, which is #3; and the same with Lexan/polycarbonate (#7, which may say 'other' on the bottle), renowned for leaching the endocrine disruptor bisphenol A. Avoid these for your own health as well as on behalf of larger environmental disruption.
Other numbered plastics are less dire, with caveats. Bottle caveats relate to plastic degradation and microbial contamination. Don't use hot liquids in plastic bottles; don't reuse milk or juice bottles, since you won't be able to get them clean and the microbes will grow; and don't use scratched or damaged bottles for the same reasons.
Back to #7, which in hard water bottles made by Camelbak and Nalgene has meant the evil BPA-leaching polycarbonate. Camelbak, according to various press releases, has redesigned its hard water bottles to be a co-polyester rather than the polycarbonate. The trick for your Christmas present, if indeed you got a hard water bottle, is that I'm not sure the co-polyester bottles are yet out, since they seem to be scheduled for early 2008. You'll have to call Camelbak or look on the bottom of the bottle. Or just go straight to REI and exchange the thing for a metal bottle. You could also exchange it for socks, snacks, or a ski pole.
The plastic water bags made by Camelbak, Platypus, and others are a separate matter of interest. Please follow all the basic plastic protocols with these vessels, including cleaning them often and throwing them out when they get skanky -- and you know what I'm talking about, people. Those tubes are mold havens. Do as I say, not as I did. Ick. From what I can find, the Platypus bags are polyethylene (this would be #1, I assume) and the Camelbak bags are polyurethane with a polyethylene lining. So these are better than Lexan. I know they are incredibly handy when hiking, biking, and skiing -- just treat them with care and they should have a long, skank-free life, rather than a short, disposable life.
Baggily,
Umbra
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Comments
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camelbak Posted 5:19 am
07 Jan 2008
Thanks for enduring the commercial commentary in the flow of helpful, clever advice. We read you often and just couldn't resist weighing in when we saw your post.
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Orfintain Posted 5:51 am
07 Jan 2008
Lower numbers mean it degrades faster and oxidizes quicker so if you have a already opened bottle of liquid you're ingesting once the bottle is opened the inside wall of the bottle begins to oxidize and degrade turning the liquid into a carcinogenic..
It isn't really an issue unless you start reusing #1's
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Conscious Consuming Posted 8:35 am
07 Jan 2008
I just couldn't resist weighing in when I saw your comment, Camelbak! I love the concept in theory but am wondering about the health impacts of this new way to get water in my little hiker.
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rivergal Posted 9:00 am
07 Jan 2008
Over the course of my lifetime, the amount of water I'll drink from Lexan or my Camelbak will be negligible compared to the fluids I get from other containers, so even if there's a little BPA leaking out of the Lexan, or microbes in my Camelbak, this will come nowhere near to the health risks I incur every day when I drive, walk through a building with new vinyl flooring, or inhale woodsmoke from a neighbor's woodstove, etc. BTW since I have a healthy immune system and am diligent about cleaning out my Camelbak after every use, I'm not worried about getting sick from it. Folks, there are bacteria and viruses everywhere but with a little common sense our bodies are amazingly able to keep the bad stuff out and the good stuff in.
I will only use my earthquake water -- changed every six months and sanitized with chlorine bleach -- if there's another major earthquake here in Anchorage that puts my house well offline. Again, drinking a few gallons will present a negligible risk to my health at a time when there will be bigger challenges to healthy living.
BTW Camelbak sells a (very overpriced) plastic device that fits through the opening and expands to help the inside walls of the bladder air dry. I hang my Camelbak from my kitchen pot rack using this device when not in use, and take the hose off to dry separately. There is no off taste associated with my Camelbak nor any visible mold growth etc. It's as clean as the ceramic and glass containers I drink from and eat off of. I bought my Camelbak dryer at REI.
In summary, although I'll do things like use an inverted bowl on a plate to microwave food instead of using plastic, I do not see a big enough risk to justify giving up all plastic use, especially where there is no practical alternative (metal bottles are NOT practical for backpacking). OTOH I don't smoke, eat lots of wild salmon and vegetables, always use my seatbelt, get tons of high intensity exercise, get 8 hrs of sleep almost every night, and my BMI (I'm a 52-y.o. female) is under 20. By making these lifestyle choices I have vastly reduced my risk of heart disease and driving fatality, which kill more women my age than all forms of cancer. I think if most people understood the true comparative risks of occasionally drinking from plastic v. being overweight, inactive, living in a smoggy city, not getting a colonoscopy at age 50, etc., they would lose this silly obsession with Lexan.
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jamessam Posted 2:14 pm
07 Jan 2008
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playbach Posted 4:24 am
08 Jan 2008
First, I remove the mouthpiece, turn it to open position, and clean it, and keep it in a retrievable place. Then, after cleaning the Camelback Bladder, I just stick a clean/re-used little yogurt container through the opening and slide it down until the bladder stops sticking together. I hang the bladder upside down by where the hose meets the bottom of the bladder(yogurt container is now up, near the hose entry to the bladder). I might need to wipe out a bit of water in lowest point before storing, but this way the hose and bag both dry nicely. Then I re-attach the mouthpice and put the thing away, wide open, little yogurt thingy still in place so air can circulate.
Hope this helps. Happy Hydrating!
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craze Posted 7:29 am
08 Jan 2008
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Bregalad Posted 12:11 pm
11 Jan 2008
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Quinn Posted 12:39 pm
13 Jan 2008
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Waterboy Posted 2:33 pm
16 Jan 2008
The design of these bottles is great. I drink water all day from these bottles and bet I consume 2-3 times more water than I used to. I literally have one at the office, one at home and one in the care. 90% of the water I drink comes from these bottles.
Here is the problem - Camelbak is now actively marketing "BPA Free" bottles with their CEO stating Camelbak wants to give customers a choice. A choice between what - bottles that leach harmful chemicals or safe bottles. I think Camelbak has crossed the line. They simply can't have it both ways.
By marketing BPA free bottles they are basically opening the door for a class action lawsuit. I decided to ask them for an RMA where I can return the 10 BPA models for the new bottles.
My guess is 5 years from now I'll probably be reading about the harmful effects of the Eastman Triton bottles.
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Waterboy Posted 2:39 pm
16 Jan 2008
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Wren Posted 4:08 pm
17 Jan 2008
I have a metal water bottle too, but a) it's very small in comparison to my 70-oz. or so #7 bottle; b) it's drinking lid has no vent, so if you close your mouth around it when you drink, you get all sorts of bubbles in your water, and swallowing all those bubbles gives me gas - you can't squeeze it to get the water out, so that leaves removing the cap every time you want a sip; and c) it's... LINED WITH PLASTIC! That blew my mind when I got it home and discovered that. So I don't really use that bottle much anymore.
Maybe I could buy a few of the larger-size metal bottles, but at $25+ a pop, that'd be quite an investment. I would need multiple bottles due to their diminished size; I literally do go through 8-10 glasses of water just while I'm at work most days, so I would need to carry that much with me as I would be filling from my water filter at home.
Thinking of it that way, it would be cheaper just to buy another water filter to keep on my desk and use a regular glass all day.
Why are the metal bottles so friggin' expensive, anyway?? You can buy an entire set of stainless steel silverware for about what one of those bottles costs, and I'm sure that's more metal involved!
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anomaly Posted 2:28 pm
18 Jan 2008
I use my Kleen Kanteen metal bottle for everyday use - it is light and compact, and the only plastic on it is the outer part of the lid. Steel can be washed and subjected to heat and cold without worry, but I've heard from many sources that freezing (as well as heating) plastic enhances its leaching tendencies... but if you're only drinking water from your bottles, it shouldn't be hard to keep them clean enough with normal washing, right?
It was actually this issue, plastic drinking containers, that brought me to Umbra in the first place, 2 years ago. Many people have asked related questions before, and she's answered them in her thorough and judicious way. You're here, you obviously read Umbra, go look them up! And then decide for yourself.
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Waterboy Posted 2:38 pm
18 Jan 2008
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Waterboy Posted 2:54 pm
18 Jan 2008
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dharmayatra Posted 12:35 am
24 Feb 2008
Yeah, renowned by incomplete reporting on the internet by blogs who don't bother to do research, but pass along hype from something else they've read.
Yes, lexan does leach BPA, but not in any quantity that can harm a human. USA and EU labs are doing more studies to confirm this since their is such fear about lexan.
As other commenter's said, you have to put a very acidic or alkaline substance in the bottle and heat it up (hot!) for leaching to be at any appreciable level. That's why it is not recommended to put lexan in the dishwasher. Dish soap and warm water is fine for cleaning.
The inside of baby formula bottles is lined with lexan. The makers of the formula said the baby would have to drink 650 bottles of it in succession to get near any sign or symptom of BPA poisoning.
Why market a BPA-free bottle? So you'll buy it!!! The market reacts to your needs and also your fears, no matter how misinformed. They're going to make a lot off fear essentially. The rush on Siggs and Kleen Kanteens is incredible. Yah, I work at one of those three-initial outfitter stores. We still drink out of our Nalgenes.
Buy what makes you feel comfortable. Lexan is not going to harm you, but if you get peace-of-mind from stainless steel or non-BPA, buy that one.
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