My brother-in-law recently sent me a spreadsheet he'd built that compares a Prius and two similar-sized cars. He just wanted to know if "doing the right thing was going to cost me." The numbers said to buy a Prius. Ideally, going green should always be a win-win situation. Then, however, he found that the waiting list is "baaaack!" So he'll have to put down a deposit just to get in line. He was quite disappointed and may now buy a different car.
My car is also on the ropes. A few months ago, I asked for car advice and got some valuable feedback. I've been procrastinating, but a week ago, my door handle broke off, so in addition to having a jury-rigged ignition switch, I now have to roll the window down and open the door using the outside handle. It's getting embarrassing. At least I don't have to crawl out the window ... yet. I'll eventually get a part from a junkyard, but that was the final straw. Our 17-year relationship is over.
My choices boiled down to a Honda Fit or a Toyota Yaris. I (naïvely) walked into a Honda dealership to buy a Fit and found a waiting list for those also, much to my chagrin. This dealer wanted over $16,000 for the one basic Fit they said they had (but couldn't find on the lot); another dealer wanted $17,000. This is supposed to be an economy car. I refuse to pay that much on principal alone! This did not bode well, so I called a local Toyota dealer and was told it would be three weeks before they would get a Yaris on the lot. I didn't even ask about the price.
Reviews and ratings for the Honda Fit are excellent in general, but the Yaris tends to rank pretty low. This surprised me. Then again, I don't really care what reviewers think about "instrument cluster placement." The car consistently received high marks for reliability, and when I searched the EPA's clean vehicle guide website for 2008 cars with green rating of nine or higher (basically high gas mileage), the Yaris was one of thirteen cars that made the cut. That was enough for me, and apparently I'm not alone -- the Yaris is very popular in Europe. My sister-in-law recently returned from France where she had rented a Prius, and she said it was one of the largest cars on the road. Where would I be without my in-laws?
My story may have a happy ending yet. I called the personal cell phone of the salesman who sold us our Prius, who is now a sales manager at the dealership, and begged asked him to find me a Yaris this time. He found one within striking distance, and I may have it in my possession by next week.
I briefly considered getting an American-made Chevy Aveo, which I like the look of, but was hard pressed to find a good review. Here are some of the comments that scared me off:
Supposedly it gets 33 mpg highway. I drive the express lanes at 60 mph every day with 2 to 3 miles of my commute on surface streets. I am getting between 22 to 24 mpg consistently ...
The Aveo also scored too low in testing to be recommended ...
... the Aveo is a rebranded Daewoo Kalos, produced by General Motors' Korean subsidiary.
I should hope that most Aveo drivers are getting better mileage than this. Quality has price in the denominator. The Aveo may still be a pretty good deal overall when taking price into account. I have always owned American-made cars, but now it's time for a change.
I see that GM is finally giving up the beloved Hummer line. This is just the kind of creativity and innovation we need to see more of in Detroit! Can't wait to see how the Chevy engineers, having been given their marching orders by management, will overcome the thermal bottleneck (laws of entropy) between the generator and electric motor in the Volt design.
On the other hand, Detroit rose to the challenge after the OPEC oil embargo in the late '70s and early '80s by greatly improving quality and switching to front-wheel drive. Maybe it can do it again. Just don't hold your breath. It is entirely possible that the industry will die a slow death at the hands of the yes men and obscenely overpaid CEO dilettantes that have golfed and schmoozed their way into every nook and cranny of the managerial organization charts.
Cash for Clunkers brought us ... more clunkers!
Simple people
Comments
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amazingdrx Posted 3:14 am
07 Jun 2008
This is logo switching like your old friend at Ford thinks is a brillient new corporate strategery.
Used economy cars are very scarce too. I have a spare Toyota stored, and I drive my Honda.
The Toyota maybe a good candidate for a plugin hybrid conversion. Conversion kits would be a solution for us do-it-yourselfers.
Why not convert that shuttered gas guzzler assembley plant in Kenosha to a plugin hybrid economy car (not the Volt with it's hundreds of unecessary hp) factory. Real economy cars with real logos on them. Made in america.
Not GM, car salesmen don't take sucker bets like that. Betting on the american worker. They respect us all about as much as workers as they do as car buyers. As they do as soldiers, voters, cirizens, soldiers...and on and on.
We are expendable, merely suckers to feed the bottomline.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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amazingdrx Posted 3:21 am
07 Jun 2008
When the regular handle finally cracked all the way and fell off,I attached a piece of thick wire to the rod and applied some tape to make a nice smooth handle. Hehey.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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Delay And Deny Posted 6:02 am
07 Jun 2008
The best and most efficient cars were created by Japan prior to 1990. The Mazdas, Hondas and Nissans of that era are more valuable than vintage wine.
Reason is they struck the perfect balance of efficiecy and performance...Bauhausian in their sparseness and utility.
Perhaps someone there has the blueprints for the 323 and Sentras and they can be Jurassic-Parked back onto the roadway.
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Ron Steenblik Posted 7:20 am
07 Jun 2008
These are only my personal opinions.
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spaceshaper Posted 8:44 am
07 Jun 2008
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit.
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bigTom Posted 9:05 am
07 Jun 2008
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Colin Wright Posted 10:18 am
07 Jun 2008
Unfortunately public transit won't solve the problem either (over 80% of commuters drive). We need a global policy on oil to divide it up and cap the cost to tide us over til we have electrified our transportation.
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amazingdrx Posted 11:09 am
07 Jun 2008
Maybe 100 million could be replaced with plugin hybrid bikes, mass transit, and small golf cart sized electric local vehicles. These are being legalized for restricted road use all over the place.
This transition doesn't need to be done next week, and it doesn't need to be to full sized electric vehicles for every car now in use. Other alternatives will suffice. Very light plugfin hybrid cars that cruise at 50 to 60 mph, with 20 hp engine/electric motors would do for most people.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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MAD MAC Posted 2:49 pm
07 Jun 2008
Well, I did, until I retired and moved to Thailand. Wife is Thai, and we moved to Thailand. In Thailand possession of glitzy stuff is very important in marking your social status. MUCH more so than in the US. Hence a lot of people drive big, flashy pickups that they can't afford. My wife wanted one. I could afford it, but I said no. It's stupid. The price of gas is only going to go up. The writing is on the wall.
We use a "Tuk tuk" to haul stuff from our weekly shopping trips. It's cheap and easy. I get around the city and visit the in-laws on my Honda Shadow. Small engine, but sufficient for here. I tank about once a month for less than ten US dollars. It's also fun and a chick magnet.... for those of you who aren't gay.
You can't ride in the snow, but you can definitely ride in the rain. In the rainy season here, it RAINS. And I ride all the time. So I recommend a bike or scooter for those who do not have a highway commute or can avoid any meaningful stretches of highway driving in their route selection.
One drawback. Bikes are inherently dangerous. You don't have any protection. You get hit, you're going to get hurt or killed. But then, if you can't killed doing it, it probably ain't worth doing.
Victory in Pattani
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bigTom Posted 6:11 am
08 Jun 2008
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hapa Posted 7:21 am
08 Jun 2008
"we" just don't want people buying cars in "cash." can't finance the profit margin, can't grab the interest.
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Biodiversivist Posted 7:44 am
08 Jun 2008
I just got home with the Yaris. The salesman pointed to a lot filled with trade-in trucks and SUVs. He said they quit taking trade-ins of this kind because they can't get rid of them. They have also quit taking orders for the Prius because they are backlogged for several months out.
Claimed that six people offered to buy "my" Yaris in the few hours it was on the lot (driven there from some dealership 150 miles away) before they closed yesterday. If he were a politician I wouldn't have believed anything he said but because he is a car salesman, I believed half of everything he said.
I saw on the news last night that scooter sales are also backlogged. I don't know.. people are going into panic mode. Getting kind of scary actually. Things could get ugly. Maybe I should put a kill switch on it before it walks off.
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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John Fish Kurmann Posted 11:32 am
08 Jun 2008
I hope you were able to get one equipped with the ABS and side and side-curtain airbag options (which tests show dramatically improve safety in a side impact), both of which come standard on the Honda Fit. Did you get a hatch or sedan?
Folks should also be aware that the U.S. Yaris is not really equivalent to the Euro Yaris. Because Americans equate "small car" with "cheap car," the U.S. Yaris is more bare-bones than the Euro Yaris, with fewer airbags available, lower-tech instrumentation, and fewer amenities in general. Europeans have long been more inclined to drive smaller cars in general, consequently there are many well-equipped and even luxurious small cars sold in Europe, including models sold by Mercedes and BMW.
For those in the market for a new, reasonably-priced, fuel-efficient car, Honda has begun the early marketing buzz campaign for their upcoming (but still unnamed) dedicated hybrid model, which will 1st be shown at the Tokyo Auto Show in September and is expected to go on sale early next year. They're making affordability the centerpiece of the campaign, so I'm expecting its starting price to be at or even below $20,000. The Honda Civic Hybrid currently starts at $22,600. Honda has also announced plans to sell a hybrid version of the next-gen Honda Fit (though it won't go on sale this Fall when the conventional version does), which I expect to be even less-expensive than the new hybrid model, and the CR-Z concept car (no on-sale date announced, though I expect it within 2 years). The next-gen Prius is supposed to be shown for the 1st time at the Detroit Auto Show in January and is expected to go on sale next April. Given that it's rumored to be somewhat larger than the current-gen with a more powerful engine, it may not come down in price much, if at all, though. Toyota has at least one smaller hybrid in the engineering pipeline but who knows when it will come to market.
As for why the Prius is again in such short supply, (according to AutoBlogGreen.com) Toyota's V.P. of Communications Irv Miller explained it this way:
Last year at this time we required incentives to move the Prius that were accumulating in dealer stock and it was a big month. While the numbers are off for the month compared to last year, we ended the month with less than 1 day supply. You can see that our business is ahead of last year and we are constrained by battery supply on a global basis. With the plant announcements to increase battery production we should be on course to reach the next level with annual Hybrid production.
I expect this to remain the case until Toyota finishes construction on at least one of their 2 new battery plants.
I'm in the market for a car myself because I ran into the rearend of a Volvo S80 with my 2000 Honda Insight during rush hour 9 days ago and the estimate to fix it is too high. Unfortunately, I can't afford another used hybrid right now, nor even a budget car like the Yaris. Not sure what I'll end up with, but I'm determined to find a high-MPG used car like the old Honda Civic VX hatchback.
"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith
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amazingdrx Posted 2:40 pm
08 Jun 2008
Even the capital needed is there, given that long to get it done.
Looking at the science and technology and mass production efficiencies, it even looks very profitable.
But then a gaggle of lobbyists, board room salesmen and politicians speak up, hehey. Hopelessness returns.
Let us always remember and never forget, transportation is 27% of GHG, cars a third of that, heating cooling buildings is 36% of GHG.
While waiting on plugin hybrid mass production, we could concentrate on geo heat exchange conservation.
Yep, those old SUVs and trucks will become cheap, affordable replacements for businesses that actually need the greater load capacity. I think a good business will pop up for converting them to compressed natural gas. It's a dollar per gallon equivalent to gasoline.
Semis might go natural gas too.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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Biodiversivist Posted 2:47 pm
08 Jun 2008
http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/images/23/pinto.jpg
The Yaris will do. Whoever comes up with a hatchback hybrid that gets over 40 mpg for less than 20 grand will make money hand over fist.
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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amazingdrx Posted 3:15 pm
08 Jun 2008
http://www.savive.com.au/casestudy/fordpinto.html
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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John Fish Kurmann Posted 3:32 am
09 Jun 2008
Looks like Honda will be the 1st to market with "a hatchback hybrid that gets over 40 mpg for less than 20 grand" when they start selling their new hybrid model--and that's less than a year from now, with the hybridized Fit to follow. I expect Toyota will not let Honda stand unchallenged in the "under $20,000" hybrid market for long, either, given their historic rivalry and Toyota's detemination to be the leader in hybrid technology. I know of no plans by any other automaker to sell a 40+ MPG hybrid for under $20,000.
"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith
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Biodiversivist Posted 2:41 pm
09 Jun 2008
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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Jon Rynn Posted 2:49 pm
09 Jun 2008
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Biodiversivist Posted 3:11 pm
09 Jun 2008
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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