If you don't normally read our InterActivist feature, you really, really, really should this week. David James Duncan is an extraordinary writer.
David James Duncan 24
-
Posted 11:22 AM on 6 Apr 2007
by David Roberts -
Posted in
Read More About
David Roberts is staff writer for Grist. You can follow his Twitter feed at twitter.com/drgrist.
Related Stories
Gourmet’s conscience, Gopnik on cookbooks, and other tasty morsels
Lester Brown and I, diavlogging
Chip Giller keeps it real
Add a Comment
You are not logged in. Thus, you cannot post a comment. If you have an account, log in. If you don't have an account, well, by all means go make one! Meet you back here in five.
Comments
View as Flat
birdboy Posted 4:38 am
06 Apr 2007
a liberal in redsville
Permalink
Gar Lipow Posted 4:48 am
06 Apr 2007
By the way David, how is that internet free weekend during which you do nothing for Grist working out for you?
Permalink
caniscandida Posted 5:02 am
06 Apr 2007
<<
What's been the worst moment of your professional life to date?
It's a tie between two moments: the day I lost 12 short stories to the implosion of a computer and the day the Supreme Court appointed King George the Bush.
>>
The loss of even one good story, one good work of art, is horrible to conceive.
But our political predicament is yet another horror.
How to compare?!
Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!
Permalink
caniscandida Posted 7:14 am
07 Apr 2007
Using Jesus as an excuse is totally unfair. Jesus did not use a hook, and he did not "play," lethally, with any fish. Peter, Andrew, James and John fished with nets, not hooks. And in fact Jesus told them to stop doing it. Yes, he ate fish. But is by no means on the record as condoning fishing. He is much more on the record as sympathizing with what the writer from Ottawa believes.
Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!
Permalink
amazingdrx Posted 2:30 am
08 Apr 2007
Inspiration from "The Eternal Now".
The fish on the line fights the hopeless fight, but keeps on fighting until the end.
We who fight this battle to save spaceship earth are in a similar kind of hopeless fight. Keep fighting. Maybe we will be let off the hook?
It's possible.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
Permalink
jetflash Posted 11:36 am
08 Apr 2007
Sort of progressive assumption. His thoughts to me kind of leap from one plateau to the next under the assumption you're still following because you're still reading. That's the way Neil Young is. Either you're with him or you're not. To me both also have the same style in this respect. Every word they speak to them is spiritual. Nothing done half way.
I read an article by Neil Young the other day and I was totally blown away. It seems Young and Duncan both have seen some grief in their days weather personal or impersonal. Young doesn't mind relating personal stuff and it seems kind of hard for either of them to relate it at all at once but much harder to leave anything out.
Of course I've loved Young's music all my life and was there in his heyday with the 8 track blaring Southern man so I could relate and tag along no problem. If you don't know the man and relate to his lifestyle it's harder to understand his words. Duncan on the other hand I've just now discovered since I didn't take time to read much until the internet made it sort of mandatory. I think I'll enjoy his work. I enjoy deep thinkers. No fun wading through shallow minds.
Permalink
caniscandida Posted 7:33 pm
08 Apr 2007
Jetflash, I am happy for you, that David James Duncan strikes you as as good as Neil Young. Ummm ... maybe that style of DJD's works better, west of the Mississippi. I cannot say. But it should at least be observed that Neil Young uses his style solely to express what he truly believes in, not to present himself as something worthy of reverence.
I am sorry to say this, because I agree with a great deal of what DJD said, in the interview with the Grist editors, and in his answers to the questions of Grist readers. It is precisely his self-referential/reverential style which I find most off-putting.
Really, as though that response of DJD to the Editors' question about his path were not self-reverential enough: "At 18, I was a golfer, in over-alls and a pony-tail down to my waste, almost winning the green jacket," followed by, "At 20, I was in India, seeking wisdom,"; then, in answer to the question, "Who is your environmental hero?," we get this huge catalogue of names, extending many lines, of past and present figures, so that we all must be impressed by how learned, cosmopolitan and well-read he is. Gevalt!
And as we have seen, he uses one of the names on that incredible list irresponsibly, to justify his addiction to vertebrate-torture.
So, Jetflash, if you want to hang out with this guy, good for you, have fun. Meanwhile, I will be listening to the terrificly underestimated Dolly Parton's rendition of "After the Goldrush," as well as Neil's own.
Amazing, thanks for that beautiful image of the hooked heroic fish, our icon.
My husband was recently in Seattle, and brought me back a gorgeous T-shirt, with a salmon design, in PacNW Native American style, which I love. I would not dream of wearing it. I have mounted it here, in the vicinity of images of Jesus Christ and the saints. This up-charging salmon is a most effective icon of the Resurrection.
God bless the salmon! And the trout! And all fish!
Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!
Permalink
jetflash Posted 1:56 pm
09 Apr 2007
I grew up in the heart of the country that the song southern man focuses on but
my Father started teaching me racial equality and respect for others at an early age ... no matter what color their skin was. I think Neil Young personifies that philosophy and is willing to try and effect positive change in that direction at some costs to himself but .... I don't think he hates the haters I think he despises the hate .... makes a statement about where he stands and leaves you to take care in your approach to him.
David Duncan seems to me to be a person that loves nature and relates things to his love of freedom. He takes me on a trip to my past. My Father was a treasure hunter and we spent a lot of time outdoors in beautiful surroundings. He gave me some big adventures for a kid to wrap his mind around and dreams to store. When I hear David Duncan speak I don't hear braggadocios words but rather a person with a sense of who he is ... a dulcimer and a mountain ... a campfire in the past ... anyone can jump into the future but the past is hard to touch.
He seems to love to do that and it shows in his words. He try's to paint of picture about what he sees not in front of him but inside of him.
If his confidence sometimes seems a little blown out of proportion please be reminded that I don't choose timid heroes ... I don't admire those who carefully put one foot in front of the other but those who brazenly tell you what the good book says like Neil Young.
If he eats fish that's his business and none of ours. You won't stop fish eaters by beating them with your words. If you try to paint a picture of the reasons you are who you are you'll attract many more followers. Those are the people who change things for good in life ... leaders ...... not storm troopers.
Like that great man he spoke about ... who liked to eat fish with his friends.
What was his name again?
Permalink
caniscandida Posted 5:08 pm
09 Apr 2007
<<
If he eats fish that's his business and none of ours. You won't stop fish eaters by beating them with your words. If you try to paint a picture of the reasons you are who you are you'll attract many more followers. Those are the people who change things for good in life ... leaders ...... not storm troopers.
Like that great man he spoke about ... who liked to eat fish with his friends.
What was his name again?
>>
It is very much the business of all we do harm to, whether we the the harmers and murderers are from the North or the South, from the East or the West, whether we believe in Jesus or do not.
Must we, must we, eat those fish? Those victims of cruelty?
Storm-troopers? Expliquez-moi, s'il vous plait.
Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!
Permalink
jetflash Posted 11:28 pm
09 Apr 2007
I have proof.
After a little research I've determined that David James Duncan only wants the dams on the snake river removed for personal selfish motives. You see the dams cause what is known as temperature impairment and cause the fish not to survive in these lower temperatures. If not for the temperature reduction problems getting the fish up river would be as simple as moving them up river manually. (in cousin bubbas pickup)
This is all outlined here in an EPA document.
What made David James Duncan think we wouldn't find out?
Temperature impairment also promotes other unsavory occurrences
that stir up pollutants .... kill fish .... and generally wreak havoc with the eco system of rivers and streams.
It's painfully obvious to me that David James Duncan simply wants to save these fish so he can become a serial fish murderer and glutton to boot. I'll simply snub him if ever we meet him at Bills Catfish in Lone Grove Oklahoma where cousin bubba and I go every Saturday night. Thanks for the direction in life.
ps
As you may have noticed in the EPAs 303d report the state of Oregon suffers from 930 rivers and streams which are temperature impaired. David James Duncan sure has his work cut out for him as a "River Keeper" and also as a fish carver. I may have to go help him get rid of some of the excess fish .... But I promise .... I won't talk to him while I do it .... I never talk with a mouth full of fish < that's the universe squared by the great fisherman.
Permalink
Rod Foster Posted 1:47 am
11 Apr 2007
You say: "Did Duncan think we wouldn't find out?" Duncan has said before he writes to get the message out to involve you and i and all the others to become enraptured and involved so that we can find the problems and hopefully come up with the solutions. Duncan takes many things into consideration about how rivers are affected. Do you really think damming rivers doesn't affect its temperatures? In fact, i would think dams would hinder a river's natural temperature. Warm Stagnant pools ...no free flowing river? hmm
"I ain't never been to Vegas, but i've gambled up my life."
Permalink
Rod Foster Posted 2:03 am
11 Apr 2007
No one is immune to hypocrisy. Not even duncan or you or myself or the person next door.
Whores Truly,
Rod
"I ain't never been to Vegas, but i've gambled up my life."
Permalink
caniscandida Posted 4:25 am
11 Apr 2007
But that does not really matter.
I just say -- and if you do not like it, it does not fit your friend-shunning Missoula MT lifestyle, tough -- : killing sensitive animals thoughtlessly is reprehensible; killing sensitive animals intentionally is criminal.
Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!
Permalink
gmunger Posted 6:58 am
11 Apr 2007
Permalink
jetflash Posted 9:04 am
11 Apr 2007
And while you're at it you may want to go back over this a time or two and see if anything jumps out at you. Gristmill posting rules.
1. Don't be a jerk. Nobody likes jerks.
2. Try to avoid profanity. The English language is vast and magnificent.
3. Try to avoid profanity. The English language is vast and magnificent.
4. Do not direct personal attacks at a poster or fellow commenter. Substance, people. Substance.
5. Don't be a troll. (Troll: Commenter who makes outrageous or provocative statements purely in order to derail discussion.) You know who you are.
6. No spam, no solicitation, no links to porn, no internet detritus of similar ilk.
7. Seriously, don't be a jerk.
But seriously it's OK with me if you act like a jerk just don't tell caniscandida that your being mean to me. Apparently she didn't understand the post either and thinks I'm on her side now so she's off my back and onto yours. Guess she quit reading before she to the part about talking with a mouthful of fish. I hope you have your satellite laptop with you wherever your at David D. and enjoying this because you owe me a chicken dinner if you're ever in Oklahoma. Sheezh .... I'm going back to lurking now before caniscandida jumps on me again with the vertebrae stuff. She has me about ready to scream.
Permalink
Mmimika Posted 9:42 am
11 Apr 2007
I would like to proffer one edit to your post: please do not think I am nitpicking, I offer this correction most humbly, as I only found out today that I have been misspelling Caniscandida's name for some time now. I am sure you meant to say, "He has me about ready to scream." - our dear friend Caniscandida is a man, not a woman.
Permalink
gmunger Posted 10:34 am
11 Apr 2007
Anyway, I have been lurking a bunch more recently, and have since come to really appreciate your thoughtful comments. Hope I didn't hurt any feelings, and I certainly didn't mean any personal attacks.
g
Permalink
caniscandida Posted 11:43 am
11 Apr 2007
I mean, really, he has nothing to fear from me. After all, who but I has tried to draft him to run against Inhofe?
Right, that is absolutely right. I was never on Jetflash's back. Au contraire.
GMUnger is another matter. This is a person that I do not know at all. The business about anglers not killing most of the fish they hook and play with may technically be true, but it is ethically not relevant.
Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!
Permalink
jetflash Posted 2:27 pm
11 Apr 2007
The one whose eye is on the sparrow sees this much clearer than I and he still loves those that hurt children with such ease and disregard for life. This mystifies me but I know it's true and more importantly I know that he has ordained that we must be his body ... his hands and his feet and in order to correct the situation.
Someone must take the first step and even though I've used huntin boots and placed the second step square on political butts with no reserve at least I'm motivated. That's what we all have in common here .... That's what we all share and we should all find strength in that because if we don't ..... we will fail ... not a matter of if but when.
As you guys know we live in the country and yesterday someone dumped a dog out near our house. This happens several times a year and so we try to care for them until we can find them new homes and such. This particular dog got adopted in my kids hearts right off and I knew my dog food bill was going up right away.
I just told them we probably needed a spare dog in case something happens to one the current residents anyway and if they could pick a name that I like we'll keep him. The dog himself does not understand that he's been saved. He does not understand that he now has what we call a bird's nest on the ground.
He still lowers his head and cowers when I step outside to show me that he knows he's not supposed to be here. So I try to stop and pet him and tell him that he just won the canine lotto but still it will take a while before he forgets that this is not his home as he understands it.
When he finally accepts that I'll have a friend for life. Soon he'll find a job that he thinks is his. If you all know anything about dogs you know that most of them live to serve their masters so if you don't give them a job they'll find their own.
Coming here kind of makes me feel like him so I guess I'm a little touchy and I apologize for that. I think I have some important things to give and share so move over caniscandida .... I won't divorce my wife or stop eating at Bills catfish but I will respect your beliefs if you'll respect mine.
Permalink
caniscandida Posted 5:24 pm
11 Apr 2007
Needless to say, I am not a judge with any authority whatsoever; nevertheless, for what it is worth, I think you fit in just fine. Much better than I do, in fact -- which is probably not much of a consolation.
You certainly do not owe me any apology. And I do not see how you would owe anyone else an apology either.
On the other hand, I think it is a sad but true and significant part of American sociology that we in the "blue" states, especially we here in the Northeast, are perceived to be disdainful, or dismissive, of people who live in the "red" states, e.g. Oklahoma, Texas, Montana (though the last is looking less "red" lately), and that we have no interest in your concerns, but instead treat you all as unimportant "fly-over" country. I never felt that way myself, but I think it is possible that many people traveling between California and the East Coast have had patronizing attitudes toward the people in between.
And in reverse, I suspect many people who live in the middle part of the country have become acutely sensitized to anything that looks like arrogance or abrasiveness or dismissiveness on the part of Easterners, with the result that a certain anti-urban, anti-Eastern, anti-NYC prejudice sets in. I have witnessed examples of that prejudice, in people from states west of the Mississippi.
I think it is very possible that we in the Northeast, totally inadvertently, with no intention to offend whatsoever, may sometimes come across as offensive, abrasive, arrogant, dismissive, patronizing, etc. And if I came across to you at any point like that, dear Jetflash, then it is I who owe you an apology.
It is an old wound in our republic, almost as old and deep and consequential as slavery. In my home state of Pennsylvania, the Quakers in control in Philadelphia tried to impose a very enlightened respect of treaties made with Indians, in particular the Iroquois; but the guys "out West," settling the Susquehanna valley, found this inconvenient, and marched on Philadelphia to demand a change. And that kind of resentment by Westerners of Eastern city-born regulations persists to this day.
Your own state of Oklahoma, being "Indian Territory," has a fascinating history. But I do not know enough about the forced movement there of the Southeastern tribes, especially, to understand how it fits into this pattern.
Anyway, I do not believe this legacy of mistrust needs to be continued. But inasmuch as it is a fact of American life, it is interesting that the way the Republican presidential candidates negotiate it is so illuminating. I like Chuck Hagel a lot, much much more than Giuliani (and I am an Italian-American New Yorker: never vote for an Italian!, unless her name is Pelosi), and I wish Hagel well, even though I doubt I would ever vote for him.
On fish, etc.: Of course I am aware that I am very much in the minority, and that just about everybody I meet eats meat (and fish is meat). And of course I realize that slapping all those people in the face would probably not be very productive. Nevertheless, I think we should do what we can to help people make intelligent, thoughtful choices about the food they end up eating.
As for Duncan, he is just not my kind of guy. (But Neil Young most definitely is!) Even though I agree with Duncan, intellectually, on many matters, there is something about the way he presents himself which bothers me. It is hard to put my finger on it. Of course, he would probably dislike my style too, and that is entirely fair. So while I shall not be buying a ticket to any performance of his any time soon, I have nothing against anyone who finds him inspiring. Go for it.
But really, I must repeat: Here I am, with the New Testament in Greek and Latin, and the King James Bible, at my side, and a stack of other Bibles in a book case out in the hall, and I simply cannot tolerate this senseless self-centered arrogant person suggesting that Jesus Christ condones his "playing" with a painfully wounded fish on a line. There are lots and lots of ways to "play," and they are wonderful. But how in the world is forcing a sensitive fellow-creature to suffer a kind of "play" that we should approve of?
And even if God Himself/Herself approves of it, that does not make it right.
My faith in "the one whose eye is on the sparrow" tells me that indeed, that "one" would not approve. But really, if we are responsible moral agents, we must understand that what we do most basically reflects our own carefully chosen values. Heeding commandments, permissions and prohibitions, even divine ones, as though that were the end of how we should decide how to conduct ourselves, is a hideously immoral shirking of our responsibility.
So no, dear Jetflash, don't you dare divorce your wife, if you do not want to; and please go on eating Bill's catfish, if you like. I would just ask you, your wife, your kids, Bill, and all Bill's other fine guests to consider those fish, the lives they led, and what the Lord did to allow those fish to arrive at your tables.
On dogs, and giving dogs a job: Little Dog, aka Blanquita, pretty much has the job of looking cute, and snoozing. Tonight, she has been having interesting dreams, apparently, such as she gets sometimes. There are few things more delightful in life than the sound of Little Dog, barking in her sleep. And there are few things more delightful, than imagining what might be going on inside her doggy head.
Little Dog seems to think that next year, we are going to do the Iditarod. She does not quite understand that that would involve recruiting a number of working dogs much bigger and tougher than she, and with greater experience of the Yukon valley, who would not appreciate her leadership, however much they may like her personally, with the result that she would end up riding in the caboose the whole way.
What she really wants is to make friends with a polar bear. A little one, like Knut. Or else with a moose. A little one.
So, while I keep telling her this project of hers is not likely to get off the ground, I suspect there is a very interesting concept for a reality show in there somewhere.
Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!
Permalink
Rod Foster Posted 12:38 am
12 Apr 2007
Thank you for your time,
Rod
"I ain't never been to Vegas, but i've gambled up my life."
Permalink
jetflash Posted 1:45 pm
12 Apr 2007
Apology accepted and please accept mine for being snotty in my reply. I guess we're all sort of on edge these days with so much information at our finger tips and most of it bad. But it won't be that way much longer.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Hey I'm not sure what I said to make you think I didn't like Northerners caniscandida. I have so many friends from your neck of the woods that I couldn't even begin to count them.
I've never thought of them as not being my brother and sisters. Good customers to.
Good evening to you all. Mark@TH
Permalink
Rod Foster Posted 3:40 pm
13 Apr 2007
Sometimes I need to learn to slow down and relax--I appreciate you accepting my apology.
All the best,
Rod
"I ain't never been to Vegas, but i've gambled up my life."
Permalink
Rod Foster Posted 4:16 pm
13 Apr 2007
--David James Duncan, American novelist, Los Angeles Times, January 23, 1994
"I ain't never been to Vegas, but i've gambled up my life."
Permalink