I have exciting matters to discuss, but first, two apologies.
First apology
Lately, my blogging has been cursory, rushed, incomplete, and a little sucky. I haven't been responding to emails, writing the longer pieces I've promised various people, or otherwise keeping up with my professional obligations.
"What's new?" you ask.
What's new is that I have a really good excuse. More on that in a moment.
Second apology
We are well aware -- I'd even go so far as to say painfully aware -- that the site has been slow lately. Hell, sometimes it stops altogether. Not cool. We're doing little things here and there to prevent downtime and speed the site up, but for the most part, we're putting all our time and energy into ... into ...
Excitement!
A new site!
Behind the scenes, Grist is in the midst of a full-scale redesign. And I mean full-scale: we're completely retooling the look and feel of the site's front end; we're switching over to a new content management system (CMS) on the back end; we're moving to a new, speedier server setup; and to boot, we're making some changes to our editorial practices and focus.
All of this is invisible to you for the time being, Dear Reader, but trust me, it's a sh*tload of work. (That's why I didn't respond to your email / link to your whatsit / return your call.)
It will all be worth it, though! I'm going to go with the "under-promise, over-deliver" principle and not reveal too awful much about what's happening, but I can share a few details, for those who are interested. (Obviously there will be tons more to say when it goes live.)
We are working with a delightful group of folks called Happy Cog for both the front- and back-end stuff. If there are any web design nerds out there, you've probably heard of HC -- they employ some of the world's leading theorists and practitioners on design, web standards, and usability. You may have heard of their web design publication, A List Apart.
Right now our site is a patched-together product of two separate CMSs. To avoid profanity, I'll just say that the arrangement is ... suboptimal. We are, with HC's help, moving everything over to a single CMS: Expression Engine. Ask around in the website biz and you'll soon discover that everyone hates the CMS they're using, so our expectation here is that we're trading a large set of awful problems for a smaller set of more manageable problems. Whee!
What about the actual, you know, publication? Yes, there are going to be some substantial changes in how Grist and the Grist community (that's you) operate. The division between site and blog -- which has always been an artifact of back-end differences more than significant content differences -- will largely disappear. The content itself will focus in on six core subject areas (you'll just have to wait to find out which six). Our guest contributors are going to have a much easier time of it: they will be able to manage and edit their posts in one place, and moderate comments if they so choose. All logged-in readers will be able to track individual stories and authors, and ignore commenters they don't like -- that means you never have to be bothered by trolls again! Generally speaking, you'll find the site much more immersive, social, useful, and aesthetically pleasing. We'll be eager for feedback, obviously.
Anyway, I guess I'll leave it at that.
Hm, what's that? When will you see it? Uh ... er ... [tugs at collar] ... let's be very safe and say: within the next year.
Are there features you'd love to see included in the new site? Let us know in comments.
Gourmet’s conscience, Gopnik on cookbooks, and other tasty morsels
Lester Brown and I, diavlogging
Comments
View as Flat
Colin Wright Posted 8:31 am
18 May 2008
Maybe there is already a way to do this? But it seems the commenters don't come up in the search engine either.
And how about a calender section with dates of events of environmental significance?
Oh, and one of those free magic ponies everyone talks about!
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Ron Steenblik Posted 8:51 am
18 May 2008
Ability to edit comments after hitting the "Post" button.
RSS notifications of comments (not just new blog articles) by other commentators on the same article.
These are only my personal opinions.
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Bart Anderson Posted 9:18 am
18 May 2008
Bart
Energy Bulletin
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David Roberts Posted 10:27 am
18 May 2008
The calendar is definitely something we've thought about for a long time, but it's probably farther out.
As for the ponies, I have a request in with the tech team but they are dragging their feet.
Ron, both your wishes shall be granted.
And thanks Bart!
grist.org
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Matt G Posted 10:27 am
18 May 2008
But please keep:
ability to easily get to my previous comments
list of recent comments - it helps me know where the action is
all the great anti-nuke rants
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Matt G Posted 10:28 am
18 May 2008
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Tasermons Partner Posted 10:40 am
18 May 2008
Sometimes I find the "News" section and the "Gristblog" section to be just a bit repetitive. One some subjects, there'll be 2 or 3 seperate news artciles/blogs which are essentially focused on the same thing (take the recent polar bear listing for example).
It gets to where some posters are basically repeating comments 2 or 3 different times in several different articles/blogs.
I know that mods here feel very passionate 'bout certain subjects, and sometimes they wanna post their own perspectives on it in a blog that's seperate, but sometimes, to me personally, it causes confusion.
Maybe work some on integrating the two?
Also, I don't personally like how there's a list of "recent comments" off to the side in the "Gristblog" (that includes comments made in the "News" section), but the news section doesn't have that. I'df like to see it in the "News" section as well.
As for an "edit" button...I can see how it'd come in handy for misspellings and grammar and the like (Godzilla knows I make a ton of 'em), but my only concern would be people who've made posts goin' back and editing them to make it seem like they were arguing for something they didn't, or to include info. that someone else pointed out later and then takin' credit for it, etc.
I don't expect most people ('specially long-time members) to act that way, but we are visited by occassional, short-term trolls and the like...so anyway, I'll go with the "edit button" idea either way ya decide for/against it.
Um, also, one question...ya'll aren't considerin' avatars or visual banners or the like, are ya?
'Cause personally, I'd kinda like the site to steer clear of that sorta stuff.
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Tasermons Partner Posted 10:55 am
18 May 2008
Makes it much easier than havin' to type the commands out every time.
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Delay And Deny Posted 11:18 am
18 May 2008
Happy Cog seems to go for the over graphized approach that makes a text oriented site unreadable.
But that's typical Grist -- style over substance.
Pictures of Val Kilmer as a cover for poorly phrased arguments...
Texeme.Construct(Participant)
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Jon Rynn Posted 11:59 am
18 May 2008
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stringy Posted 12:48 pm
18 May 2008
Also pleased to see that Happy Cog is doing the work - they've long had my respect in the web development industry, for their focus on what users need and their high standards.
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Biodiversivist Posted 2:09 pm
18 May 2008
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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PermieWriter Posted 2:33 pm
18 May 2008
I'll be so happy to see greater integration betwixt Grist and Gristmill.
Thanks for all your hard work.
Eat what you grow, grow what you eat
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David Roberts Posted 3:33 pm
18 May 2008
As for an "edit" button ... my only concern would be people who've made posts goin' back and editing them to make it seem like they were arguing for something they didn't, or to include info. that someone else pointed out later and then takin' credit for it, etc.
Very good point, and the solution I'm hoping to get is that everything changed or added in an edit would be marked as such -- maybe boldface or a different color -- and there would be a small tag at the bottom: "edited on [date]." Ideally, there would be no way to do a stealth edit.
(Don't quote me on any of this! If our tech team reads this they'll strangle me.)
... what I would like though is buttons that we could use when we want to bold, italicize, or quote
There will be a WYSIWYG.
Will contributors be able to see the article queue
The exact mechanics haven't been worked out yet, so don't take any of this as written in stone. Contributors will be able to see their own queue, and (probably/maybe) publish to their own blog on their own schedule. As to the timing of those posts being syndicated into other areas of Grist, that will be a matter for the editorial staff.
Can we please, please be able to block certain posters from the blog view?
Yes! All it takes is the click of a button, and you'll never have to read a comment by [person you hate] again! And you can turn it off, if you decide [person you hate] might kind of have a point after all. And then turn it on again when you remember that [person you hate] really is a jerk.
grist.org
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Flamingo Posted 3:40 pm
18 May 2008
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amazingdrx Posted 4:06 pm
18 May 2008
From DR and others' excellent interviews and inside information from big shot conferences to all kinds of big shots defending their inintiatives to actual practical stuff, like bio-d's excellent bike thread (and biodiversity threads too)... and on and on too numerous to mention...to the comments on the blog.
I think this org is really getting to the heart of every leading edge issue related to environment and climate change and ethical issues like poverty and animal cruelty.
That sure won't change with the new site design, so let it be! Looking forward to blogging it! Thanks again gristers. Nothing quite like this anywhere else.
We get the same old gruel from mass media, radio, teevee and print. (Bio-d even helped explain why that doesn't happen as much with this blog interactivity.) This site is such a relief.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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Jonas Posted 12:29 am
19 May 2008
For us readers, the adage might be: the simpler the better (at least that's my view). A commenting function and a comment tracking function might suffice.
I'd have a note on substance though: what I miss at Grist is a view from the developing world, or from topics dealing with these countries.
After all, environmentalism has become very much a global affair, with so many intertwined issues, that you basically can't run a discussion about being green without including developing world perspectives.
Our eating habits determine what happens in Brazilian agriculture. Halting deforestation in Congo should be a priority for all Western governments (e.g. the UK and Norway already understand this and are putting up big money); the list of examples is sheer endless.
So I hope this gets more attention in Grist.
For the rest, this is one of the most interesting environmentalist websites, with well researched in-house articles and great guest posts by professionals.
Thanks and good luck.
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mihan Posted 12:43 am
19 May 2008
We're "Gristas," of course.
Would it be possible to have, instead of the current "recent comments" format of one line per comment, a formet where there's one line per thread (and maybe a list of the last 5 posters)? For example:
Apologies and previews (caniscandida, amazingdrx, iodiversivist, fearless leader dave, transient troll)
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wackatalpidae Posted 12:57 am
19 May 2008
ahhhhhhhhhhhh
the world would be so more pleasant if we could pretend the people we disagree with or dislike did not exist
wrapped in our warm cocoons, oblivious to the fact that there are people out there who aren't like us
and then wonder, why doesn't reality correspond to how I perceive it
and then shocked, you mean their are people who don't have the same view!
and then incredulous because you never took time to learn about their perspective
and not able to defeat them because your immune system was not exposed to the virus
if not with us, must be against us
happy happy joy joy
riding my magic pony off into the perfect sunset, forever and ever
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Erik Hoffner Posted 1:36 am
19 May 2008
Don't forget about your dialup users. There are lots of folks in the phonewire hinterlands who lose out when sites are redesigned and optimized for those with broadband.
Erik
The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,200+ grassroots groups working for conservation & more
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wendigo Posted 2:12 am
19 May 2008
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Tasermons Partner Posted 2:42 am
19 May 2008
Not sayin' I want any, I'm just wonderin'...
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cavecanem Posted 4:25 am
19 May 2008
"Very good point, and the solution I'm hoping to get is that everything changed or added in an edit would be marked as such -- maybe boldface or a different color -- and there would be a small tag at the bottom: "edited on [date]." Ideally, there would be no way to do a stealth edit."
You could always integrate wiki function and allow changes. This way it tracks all prior changes; it shows who is abusing it (and will allow you to block a thread from being edited further), and will allow the ability to rollback to an original version of a comment. If you want to allow it at all.
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JMG Posted 5:11 am
19 May 2008
The 5% Project
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Pangolin Posted 6:09 am
19 May 2008
The current proximity of the preview button to the post button may be that cause of more than a few typo ridden threads.
I'd also like to support a dial-up friendly format or option. Not everybody is on broadband still or has it available in rural areas. Due to the frequently technical nature of this site I think this would be helpful in dispersing relevant information/issues.
The ignore button option does compress some threads significantly on other sites. Peer scores are nice too but sometimes abused.
I like Grist and Gristians (my vote) a whole lot as is. Keep up the great work all.
Put the Carbon Back
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caniscandida Posted 7:30 am
19 May 2008
By the same token, I like to (try to) read about things that I know little about, but which concern me nevertheless. So I hope a good shuffle of topics of various kinds will remain readily visible and available.
Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.
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Quinn Posted 2:55 pm
19 May 2008
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amazingdrx Posted 3:24 pm
19 May 2008
Better to pass up trolls, than create a special ignore list for them. The New york times fora tried this too. It didn't help.
Ocasionally recognizing a clever (what they consider clever) troll tactic will get them to brag and expose their various selves who are talking merrily along with each other, trying to bait normal neticzens into "Br'er Rabbit" 100+ endless meaningless threads.
Born to be wild. We can't let the medium tame our message.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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caniscandida Posted 5:59 pm
20 May 2008
Nor should that opinion seem too totalitarian. We do not agree with ourselves, after all. And yet we love to hear one another's opinions, don't we. I do not agree with myself, much of the time; but if I have quarreled with, say, my left foot, I am prompt to invite it to have a bath with me, and there we talk things out, the rubber duck (an eider duck) our only witness.
As to whether trolls should be suppressed or allowed: Well, is this a First-Amendment question, or an Age-of-Enlightenment question?
In the first case, we may approve of Larry Flynt's argument (and Flynt has been a great public servant recently, in uncovering scandalous behavior of legislators), that no matter how disgusting someone's message may be, we ought to allow that person to express it.
That may work for a sidewalk newsstand, but there is no reason that it ought to be the rule in Grist.
In the second case, we should start with the assumption that everyone is reasonable, everyone is fair, everyone is using his and her head at least as much as his and her heart, or at least wants to.
And actually, it is not unknown that readers are dissuaded from one opinion, and persuaded unto another, thanks to careful, reasonable argumentation from a particularly eloquent advocate.
Nevertheless, we cannot help observing that the unfriendly visitors whose presence amongst us we least enjoy are very good at appearing reasonable and professional, abundant with references to support their argument that we are simply stupid. Or worse, involved in a conspiracy, brain-washed, mentally captive, zombie-oid.
As a suggestion, we might distinguish three categories:
Those who think the basic concerns of environmentalists, especially regarding climate change, and the biodiversity crisis, are wrong-headed, should be allowed to comment, adding what they think they know, which is better than what the environmentalists think they know, always doing so in a respectful manner.
Those who think in that way, i.e. that central concerns of environmentalists are wrong-headed, should NOT be allowed to comment, if the intention of their presence is plainly to disrupt the constructive conversation of others.
Those who think in that way should ESPECIALLY NOT be allowed to comment, if the form that their disruption takes is to mock and discredit earlier commenters.
What technical provisions might be made to the effect of these suggestions are of course in the hands of those who know better than I, with lights and buttons, switches and signals, screens and mouses (anciently, mice, dear mice).
Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.
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JoeBob Posted 11:40 am
22 May 2008
Keep up the good work for the grown ups
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Roz Cummins Posted 3:03 pm
24 May 2008
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Payton Chung Posted 6:55 am
16 Jun 2008
The most elegant solution I've seen to the "edited after the fact" problem is the way Flickr (and phpbb, I think) does it: it adds a little "last edited at XYZ time" note to the end if said edits were made more than a few minutes after posting. That subtly lets people know that something might have changed in the aftermath.
Two things I really like about Slashcode's CMS which haven't quite trickled into the mainstream: comments threaded by nesting, and user moderation. I think the latter might work pretty well around here, from the interactions I've seen.
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