Taking on corporate America’s faves 8

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1. 

   David Roberts Posted 6:20 am
   04 Dec 2008

   I don't think Al Gore ...... was calling for environmentalists to demonstrate their bravery and commitment by hassling other environmentalists. He probably has bigger concerns than movement purity.
   
   grist.org

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2. 

   josullivan58 Posted 7:30 am
   04 Dec 2008

   I don't think Al Gore meant that eitherEnvironmental Defense is being scapegoated and it serves no purpose other then allowing some enviro's to vent about their failures by blaming other enviro's.

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3. 

   Biodiversivist Posted 12:52 am
   05 Dec 2008

   I dropped into the Rising Tide websiteto see what they think we should be doing:
   We must dismantle the systems of oppression that permeate our culture and ourselves, and work toward real solidarity across lines of race, class, gender and sexual orientation. When we begin to build a culture of mutual aid and community autonomy, we demonstrate that we don't need the government, and certainly not giant corporations, to survive. We just need a livable planet.
   I'm all for using protest to get a point across. I also think that Democrats should be critiquing other Democrats and "environmentalists" should be critiquing other "environmentalists." In the end all you have are your debate points. Good intentions don't count when both sides have good intentions, which is usually the case.
   But protests can backfire if your alternative game plan is deemed (by those who's attention you grabbed) to be no better than the one you are protesting or deemed not to be a game plan at all.
   Rising Tide's "plan" to save the planet doesn't look particularly robust to me although I know the idea of "cultures of mutual aid and community autonomy" appeals to a large segment of the environmental community. This very protest is an example of human nature. Human beings can't change their basic nature. That would be like asking chimpanzees to behave like bonobos.
   Although, their criticism of the effectiveness of carbon trading may ultimately prove to be not far off the mark. It does not appear to be the godsend many were hoping for.
   
   In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

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4. 

   vakibs Posted 1:00 am
   05 Dec 2008

   wow good newsEnvironmental Defence Fund (and likewise greenwashers) are the reason why we had 10 years of delay in solving global warming, and why we have increasing CO2 emissions, and why there is no end in sight to coal-fired power plants.
   Instead of admitting their mistakes, these groups are shamelessly pumping more propaganda on carbon-trading. Enough is enough..
   
   Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

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5. 

   GreenMom Posted 1:30 am
   05 Dec 2008

   Give credit where credit is dueEnvironmental Defense is a large part of the reason that acid rain was reduced dramatically over the 1990s.  Come on, guys.  EDF pioneered the SO2 trading idea for coal-fired power plants, which have CONTINUOUS EMISSION MONITORS, for crying out loud, and it WORKED.  They weren't addressing carbon back then, so you can't justify faulting them for the fact that scrubbers increase carbon.
   If we can get a cap on carbon from coal-fired power plants, and ratchet down on the cap, it's a nail in the coffin for coal.  It's not the whole answer, but it's a damn good start.  Add in renewable portfolio standards, public investment in alternatives, etc., and you've got yourself a strategy.
   Yeah, coal is the enemy of the human race, I've heard.  That's true.  Cap-and-trade is one tool toward getting existing plants shut down sooner.  Got any other tools to dump from the tool kit? Take out anything that's not perfect, and you won't be left with much.
   Yeesh.

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6. 

   David Roberts Posted 4:00 am
   05 Dec 2008

   Vakibs,You accidentally wrote that EDF is "the reason" we have coal plants and global warming. I know you wouldn't write anything that spectacularly silly on purpose. Was it a typo?
   
   grist.org

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7. 

   Jon Rynn Posted 4:35 am
   05 Dec 2008

   Rising Tide does good work on coal protestsThey should stick to that...maybe it's too far out in the country all the time, someone might suggest they could occupy a coal company's headquarters or something (not that I'm suggesting anything illegal, of course).

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8. 

   siahtam Posted 7:22 am
   05 Dec 2008

   Who's editing gristmill?I was appalled to see this posted here with that caption.
   At least David Roberts had a poignant first comment.
   What did the protest accomplish? All the protesters did, in effect, was distract EDF employees for a whole morning.
   What does that mean? A couple less hours were spent by EDF employees educating people on the hill about the importance of acting on global warming.
   When has cap-and-trade been discredited? Are these protesters going to travel to Seattle next to go after David Roberts and others advocating stringent cap-and-trade policies?
   And what's the alternative to cap-and-trade? A tax? They're different means to the same goal, which is to set a price on the negative externalities caused by carbon emssions
   Perhaps they're against USCAP, but then why is EDF the target? Why not go protest Jonathan Lash at WRI who was instrumental in starting the coalition or others at NRDC or the National Wildlife Foundation? USCAP right now is the most effective talking point in Washington when lobbying for carbon legislation.

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