Stimulus spending going to roads? 19

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1. 
   • hapa 1789
   • 29 Dec 2008 8:00am 1230566420 1230595220

   "if"?didn't we just have it shoved down our throats how few rational actors with perfect information are out there?
   how much pressure (and reward) there is to stick to conventional wisdom?
   there will be pain and punishment for seeking alternatives before they're easy as breathing. we're not brave people. the first risk that needs averting is loss of market share. then we can talk about "change."

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2. 
   • wesrolley 1849
   • 29 Dec 2008 11:45am 1230579950 1230608750

   Ask Robert Byrd what he wants.I understand that the West Virginia request for the stimulus package is to invest in CCS so that they can keep the economy going.  
   I don't think that a Senate with Robert Byrd and James Inhofe will allow much to happen without a filibuster and Obama does not have the votes to break on unless we provide them.  Pressure on elected as the new Congress takes its seats.
   Wes
   
   Wes Rolley
   
   CoChair - EcoAction Committee
   Green Party US

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3. 
   • Jon Rynn 1623
   • 29 Dec 2008 1:39pm 1230586748 1230615548

   That might not be the worst part...also in that article:

      Rep. James L. Oberstar (D-Minn.), chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, has circulated a 41-page memo seeking $85 billion worth of projects over the next two years. The largest chunk of that money, more than $30.2 billion, would go toward highway funds, while $12 billion would go to local public transportation funds. An additional $14.3 billion would go toward "environmental

   re," with most going to a clean-water fund.
   So out of 850 billion dollars (perhaps) over two years, only 85 billion for infrastructure, of which 30 for roads and only 12 for transit?  Hope not.   ...read more

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4. 
   • ce1907 1802
   • 29 Dec 2008 2:24pm 1230589442 1230618242

   be specific, Jongross numbers are meaningless
   1.  purpose of stimulus is immediate shock to economy by producing jobs and purchase power (by immediately employed)
   immediate -- means immediate
   road and bridge fixing is already planned, easiest to do.  Also easiest to PASS immediately because it has existing constituencies everywhere (including rural states which, by the way, have two senators each -- brush off your math)
   2.  how much money could be spent wisely and IMMEDIATELY on mass transit
   what?  where?
   if you find the specifics, and it is more than 12 billion in two years (Schumer wants 20 billion) then great
   
   -- say what the good stuff is, and argue for it
   not the amount, but the good stuff.  make that the focus
   otherwise, no meaningful discussion
   just a lot of mindless chest thumping   ...read more

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5. 
   • Pangolin 1753
   • 29 Dec 2008 3:06pm 1230591964 1230620764

   Stimulus is a hole....into which we throw money. Once we get past the bridge repairs and levee rebuilds we're into waste. Highway spending is a hole into which money can be poured forever with guaranteed diminishing returns. Check out Craigslist and look at some of the used car prices on offer. People can't sell unwanted vehicles for 80% of their value just a few months ago; and dropping.
   Until it gets into the thick heads of Congressmen that cars, coal, suburbs and stripmalls are dead ends economically we are going to be stuck in futile cycling. Fixing the highways doesn't do squat if the offramp dumps your freight onto a gravel road or worse. Your county's broke and doesn't have the scratch to patch or pave what your daddy drove as smooth asphalt.
   Meanwhile investments that have proven returns, in efficiency and dollars are neglected because the don't have a few spare million to bribe congress with. Every town in the US has single-paned windows, ancient furnaces, calcified water heaters, decrepit refrigerators, halogen area lighting, schools with temporary buildings and thermal profiles like a thin tent.
   Swap those out for most-efficient equipment and suddenly dollar bills appear in in consumers hands that were going to coal, petroleum and gas giants. (sorry, gotta be losers somewhere)
   Pull vehicles off the roads and convert them to short-range, plug-in hybrids. Lots of vehicles currently sporting 200 hp. engines could do just fine with 50 horsepower, a wad of ultra-caps and some batteries. The gas money saved is available to the rest of the economy instead of leaving the country to cover oil imports.
   Stimulus, as we know it, burns wealth. The value of the money is destroyed on futile projects at least half the time. Conservation creates lasting value that frees resources, financial and physical, for use elsewhere. As far as elsewhere the US has to lay some track if it's going to get it's goods where they need to go. The roads are looking more like thin patchwork every day and I don't see the funds for replacements showing up anytime soon.
   
   Put the Carbon Back   ...read more

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6. 
   • ce1907 1802
   • 29 Dec 2008 9:53pm 1230616391 1230645191

   Pangolin, your vision is simplisticI share your goals, generally
   but the problem is not simply bribes to Congressmen
   the public does not agree.  it does not want to pay for "private" improvements for people.  it does want roads and cars
   so your vision is missing quite a few important steps along the way
   prioritize:  what is most important first?
   how can we get it?
   what can we trade?
   how can we influence the slovenly cowardly press?
   outside of appointing Pangolin emperor tomorrow, there is no direct path to your goals
   I am all for your elevation, of course.  But I suggest the need for a Plan B   ...read more

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7. 
   • cneal 2320
   • 29 Dec 2008 10:13pm 1230617598 1230646398

   T4AmericaYou guys should look into - and direct your readers to - the T4America coalition. They're an outgrowth of Smart Growth America with big foundation backing to make sure that the stimulus - and the subsequent Transportation Bill reauthorization - go in more progressive directions.
   Their website is also equipped with action alerts. It's important for legislators to hear from their constituents about these issues - a few letters, phone calls, or e-mails can make a big difference.
   http://t4america.org/
   
   vigorousnorth.blogspot.com
   
   A field guide to the wilderness areas of American inner cities.

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8. 
   • Jon Rynn 1623
   • 29 Dec 2008 10:50pm 1230619849 1230648649

   There's much more than roadsIf you look at the Infrastructure Report Card put out by the American Society of Civil Engineers, they call for spending of 1.6 billion dollars to get the infrastructure to an "adequate" level, and most of that is not roads -- water, electricity, ports and airports, school buildings -- there's a lot to be done.  Apparently the Civil Engineers are the most radical "infrastructionists", because they're calling for more money than anyone else (the projects are even broken down state-by-state, ce1907).

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9. 
   • JMG 1615
   • 30 Dec 2008 3:29am 1230636559 1230665359

   That's billion with a T right, Jon?Because only 1.6 billion with a B wouldn't get Portland's infrastructure up to "adequate," much less Oregon's ...
   
   The 5% Project
   
   Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.

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10. 
    • Jon Rynn 1623
    • 30 Dec 2008 3:45am 1230637515 1230666315

    oops, yep, T, 1.6 trillion

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