The Paiute ATV Trail, in central Utah’s Fishlake National Forest, and adjacent BLM land comprise a network of roads and “motorized trails” that have been linked and promoted for off-road vehicle recreation by public lands agencies. The routes range from custom-designed ATV-only tracks to paved roads through small towns. The majority of the trail uses ordinary dirt roads on federal public lands, sharing them with general traffic.
Its supporters promote it as a win-win model for public lands throughout the nation, bringing in tourism dollars and resulting in less damage to the landscape overall: Theory has it that when you build and sign roads for off-road use, there’s no need to go off-road.
Only not. As this story in Wildlands CPR’s journal The Road RIPorter states, it doesn’t lead to less damage, only more: the Fishlake has a higher density of "user created" routes than do many other forests without a designated ATV-trail system. And the economic benefit to the local area is overblown: The study on its fiscal impact does not stand up to scrutiny.
My advice to these guys: Take a hike.
Is a 4-day workweek inevitable? Utah cuts energy use 13%
Oregon group fights national forest logging near Crater Lake
Comments
View as Threaded
Sam Wells Posted 11:11 am
26 Jan 2009
The average American can only walk or cross country ski about ... what do you think, 10 to maybe 15 miles a day, pushing it? I think we need to get more people out in the wilderness to appreciate the natural beauty. And you know what, some folks are going to leave trash, act like "trail blazers," start fires, or make a mess with motorized vehicles. That's why trail maintenance is such a big issue.
I do detect a subtle undercurrent of a stereotype of "noble green hikers" versus the great unwashed, the redneck boobs who love off-road equipment from motorcycles to snowmobiles, and those who probably drive big American trucks instead of the Toyota Prius. Seems like a personal folly, since one discriminate between the two, and both can be managed equally as well if done correctly.
As a final note, why did the Paiute Trails go that way? The answer was that the Fed was going to close down the entire system ... to everybody! In the rush to get something on the table, of course the off-road lobby did some homework and donated some stuff for the record - which I agree was questionable at best. But public lands are ... public. The government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around.
-sammie
Onward through the fog
Permalink
Erik Hoffner Posted 11:58 am
26 Jan 2009
As the study says, the Fishlake has more off trail activity than other areas lacking a designated trail system. Which, if a study of the actual impacts had been done, would surely show that the trail system has resulted in more damage to the ecosystems it inhabits, not less.
I'm not against ORVs or their users on principle. I'm against this fakery being sold as success. No stereotypes or elitism real or intended.
As a final note, public lands being public, let's not let a few destroy much of what belongs to the many.
Erik
The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more
Permalink
Backcut Posted 12:18 pm
26 Jan 2009
I also had an experience last summer where a group of motorcycle riders found us and complained about other riding tearing up the countryside. They did confront them on the issue but ran into the mob mentality.
A huge part of the problem is a lack of enforcement. Many of the problem riders are very skilled and cannot be caught without a huge expenditure of manpower and resources. And they surely know that.
Self-policing works in many situations but, the nature of the sport(s) has people pushing the limits.
Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com
Permalink
Tasermons Partner Posted 12:24 pm
26 Jan 2009
I've heard developers use the same excuse to try and build housing developments on park land.
It's bull, okay.
ORV riders can still enjoy it OFF of the vehicles.
Public means open for everbody, NOT every interest or every hobby or every vehicle.
Since they can still be allowed in the public lands as people (without vehicles), then it's still public.
Furthermore, public lands, by technical definition, means that they are held in the public interest. The public interest DOES NOT necessarily equate to the interests of indiviuals or groups with varying interests or hobbies. It refers to the public benefit and interest at large and as a whole.
Permalink
Russ Posted 8:02 pm
26 Jan 2009
I am. These disgusting machines represent pure aggression vs. both the natural and social environment.
They're purely destructive of every element of the ecosystem - soil, water, air, biodiversity.
And they are incompatible with every real recreational use of the land. They are directly physically aggressive in any space, and the nazi noise reverberates for miles.
These violent effects are intentional on the part of those who deploy these weapons. They hate nature, they hate peace and quiet, they hate everything which is not being actively destroyed, since they live only to destroy.
These hominids are simply existentially violent and destructive. They are vandals, "vermin on machines" as they were referred to in The Road Warrior.
And there is most definitely nothing "elitist" about these truths. On the contrary, every poll shows overwhelmingly that Americans don't want these things on their public lands, in their national parks. The preferred Bush admin frame, that it's "preservation vs. recreation", is a lie.
On the contrary, the reality is that it's preservation and the recreation of the vast majority vs. a miniscule, violent special-interest minority.
(And BTW, people need to stop referring to this carnage as a form of "recreation". It's vandalism, being perpetrated by vandals, plain and simple.)
The people want and have the right to the peaceful enjoyment of their public lands without being assaulted by mechanized huns.
Permalink
chardical Posted 12:16 am
27 Jan 2009
Permalink
biodiversivist Posted 1:26 am
27 Jan 2009
I recall hiking in to my favorite beaver pond and finding that some "unwashed, rednecked boob" had driven his ORV right through it. This isn't uncommon at all. The only way to prevent it is to close the trails with giant steel gates and big penalties. They are forever hooking chains to my gates and pulling them down so they can off-road through my woods.
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
Permalink
Backcut Posted 2:37 am
27 Jan 2009
Talk about kneejerk reactions!
Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com
Permalink
chardical Posted 3:31 am
27 Jan 2009
Permalink
biodiversivist Posted 4:01 am
27 Jan 2009
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
Permalink
Pompey Road Posted 5:08 am
27 Jan 2009
Bio,
No use in railing against the Machine until you can fix the machine. All the ATV Manufactures are like reading the Who's Who list of Major Japanese Corporations. Each Japanese Corporation that is Manufacturing ATV's has either a large automotive or other industry component. These are such a large multinational conglomerate there is no need for me to go into my corporate lobby tirade again. A large dealership and parts network has been built around the ATV and what gripes me even more is that we don't even get any jobs for our working class from this new fad called ATV riding. Even called Adventure Tourism in Southern Appalachia in order to drum up state and local money to build trails to stimulate the local economy. All we get here in the U.S. is the pollution, wasted fuel and environmental damage. I bet the electric ATV will be a far distant afterthought to the electric car.
I must confess it is easy to go over to the dark side. I own one myself. I even tried to get a trail through a Corps of Engineer Flood Control Project. The Corp is allowing the area to be mined by Coal Corporations with the Mountain Top Removal Method and hundreds of miles of gas company roads have been cut in with no environmental impact study. We call the area Sherwood Forest because of the restrictive nature of the ARMY CORPS of ENGINEERS and the Coal Corporations not allowing people access to the area. They have been caught by some environmental groups allowing un permitted Hollow Fills on the area. I determined that an ATV would have less environmental impact as the blasting or the Caterpillar Dozers would and wanted into the area to keep taps on the Mountain Top Removals and Gas Wells leaking oil. I am old and can't hike it anymore but in reality the ATV causes me to lose credibility. The ends don't justify the means and it is restricted, illegal to ride an ATV in that area. I was breaking the law every time I took my ATV and camera on a spy mission.
Got to admit I did derive a little excitement in my life and thrill of busting an illegal hollow fill, almost covered the guilt of using an ATV to get in there.
Anybody got a good mule or Alpaca for sale or Trade for an Good ATV
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
Permalink
Tasermons Partner Posted 12:50 pm
27 Jan 2009
How is that even possible?
What type of wildlife sticks around when motorized bikes are nearby?
Perhaps ya don't realize it, but to most types of wildlife those things are awfully damn loud. They'll scurry, fly, and flop away from sounds like that.
How can a family view wildife when it runs away from the general vicinity?
Noise is pollution too, don't forget.
And how can they enjoy the sights of nature when they blur through it at 30 miles an hour?
Permalink
Backcut Posted 1:09 pm
27 Jan 2009
I usually choose to go where other people don't go, myself. However, I would be open to riding a quad at 12 mph to get to those remote areas. I would also prefer to not leave established and legal trails. I also prefer to have most areas devoid of motorized vehicles.
Your hatred only makes me stronger!
Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com
Permalink
Erik Hoffner Posted 10:28 pm
27 Jan 2009
Erik
The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more
Permalink
Backcut Posted 11:29 pm
27 Jan 2009
Seriously, I would probably own one (if I were rich) but I don't think I would get enough use out of one. The places I want to go don't allow them and they wouldn't be appropriate, anyway. I wonder if a governor couldn't be used to limit their power and sound in sensitive areas. I, too, don't like the annoying sound of people purposely overusing the power of those machines.
As far as using them for hunting, I believe that people who are too out of shape to hunt without them should NOT be hunting at all. All too often you see a grossly overweight person on a quad packing a high-powered rifle.
Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com
Permalink
amazingdrx Posted 11:37 pm
27 Jan 2009
The other incidents happened twice, one week apart, when they killed 50 ducks each time, crossing and recrossing open water on a river. The ducks tend to cluster in open water in Winter.
You mat want to take this sort of thing into account Erik, along with the good folk running down wolves and coyotes on snowmobles and ORVs out west. Not everyone can afford a helicopter ride to kill wildlife from like Sarah does.
They chase these animals until their hearts burst. Alchohol is generally fueling the fevered brains of these gas guzzlers as they do their sadistic deeds.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
Permalink
Russ Posted 11:52 pm
27 Jan 2009
You mat want to take this sort of thing into account Erik, along with the good folk running down wolves and coyotes on snowmobles and ORVs out west. Not everyone can afford a helicopter ride to kill wildlife from like Sarah does.
Yes, I confess I fail to see how it makes it better that the mechanized invader also wants to shoot things.
Permalink
amazingdrx Posted 12:06 am
28 Jan 2009
The ORV "industry" keeps the trails open regardless. In the deer killing incident they at least closed the trails for awhile in that area.
In the duck killing incident authorities didn't even block off that section of river and it happened again.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
Permalink
Pompey Road Posted 12:22 am
28 Jan 2009
I see the gas company and power company in my region have started using them in our mountainous terrain and all the fire and rescue people now have them. They are here to stay, thread lightly programs and education are the only way to control them now plus stiff fines for riding them in places where they are not allowed to be or in a manner that causes damage.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
Permalink
Erik Hoffner Posted 12:23 am
28 Jan 2009
Speaking of, if you missed this book, have a look:
Thrillcraft: The Environmental Consequences of Motorized Recreation
http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/thrillcraft:ha ...
Erik
The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more
Permalink
amazingdrx Posted 12:44 am
28 Jan 2009
Make them silent electric and non-polluting and lower power, slower speed for legitimate uses. Otherwise they should be banned from public land.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
Permalink
Russ Posted 6:40 am
28 Jan 2009
But I do have copies of the two Sierra Club reports, Shredded Wildlands and Shattered Solitude, which are accessible from this page
http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlands/orv/
Those both convey the destruction and nastiness.
Permalink
Erik Hoffner Posted 6:52 am
28 Jan 2009
They were all returned with the excuse that on the cover, the photo of the four wheeler, well, this vehicle has a stylized painting of the bust of a naked woman on its side, so since this agency doesn't discriminate against women, they therefore could not open any of the books and sent them all back.
That's one way to avoid an uncomfortable topic, huh.
Erik
The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more
Permalink
Russ Posted 7:53 pm
28 Jan 2009
Is there any alleged public agency which hasn't been captured?
Permalink