The Reality Coalition is at it again. This time, they recruited the Coen Brothers to shoot an ad debunking the “clean coal” myth:
The Coens are also shooting a second ad for the campaign, due out soon.
Coen for broke
Coen brothers shoot an ad busting the ‘clean coal’ myth 36
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Posted 1:31 PM on 26 Feb 2009
by Kate Sheppard -
Posted in
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Kate Sheppard is Grist’s political reporter.
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biodiversivist Posted 7:27 am
26 Feb 2009
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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JosephThePoet Posted 8:30 am
26 Feb 2009
There is no such thing as any "clean" energy source. Even windmill electrical generators, and solar collectors, require materials to construct them that must be mined, manufactured, shipped, installed and maintained. Nothing just "cleanly" appears.
Idiots always just babble tunnel-vision retarded thought, while they pretend superiority of intelligence or morality. Their efforts and the money would be better spent if they'd research the technologies that allow coal to be used more cleanly then pressure the politicians to legally require companies use them, instead of their just pretending superiority while babbling stupidly about ignoring a massively valuable resource that we have in abundance and that is needed to provide them with the conveniences of modern life that they enjoy and demand.
It is always easier to rant and cause further destruction to systems you're angry with instead of putting the effort into making thing better. It is like hacking computer systems instead of writing better code to make computer programs operate better. Being a babbling destructive idiot is easy, as politicians regularly prove, but creating something valuable requires effort of thought and an intelligence level above that of a vegetable.
My first book "Life is a Puzzle" was recently published by PublishAmerica.com, under my pen name of JosephThePoet.
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GreyFlcn Posted 8:36 am
26 Feb 2009
And that's what this ad is targeted at.
The main reason for the other connotation is mainly because coal advocates tend to switch between talking about Carbon Capture, and Mercury/Sulfur filters; Depending on who they are talking to.
As such it's necessary for this ad to cover both.
-David Ahlport
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Pompey Road Posted 8:59 am
26 Feb 2009
Show some MTR sites with the caption there is no such thing as clean coal.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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Pompey Road Posted 9:18 am
26 Feb 2009
The coal corporations had over 30 years to develop a fuel that that the would would let them burn. Gasified coal is old technology but the cheap misers walked away from scores of gasification attempts in the late 70's. And even then your have the cheap bastards blowing up mountains and destrying Southern Appalachia just to save a few bucks on the ton over underground mining.
From the mining, the cleaning "wet sludge Ponds" the power generation, the "Wet Fly Ash Ponds" particulate matter, heavy metals, co2, coal is an earth killing medievil fuel source. For Christ sake man this is the 21st century, it is just time to get off this crap and find some renewable sustainable fuels that won't destroy whole regions of the earth with the mining process or the planet with it's end use.
No one wants to make coal better we just want it gone. If the crap was cleaner than sunshine and you are still blowing up whole mountains regions or ruining streams, rivers and water tables with the coal slurry's and sludge from the mining and cleaning process, it's still not worth the effort or the destruction.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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amazingdrx Posted 1:47 pm
26 Feb 2009
Don't be so hard on yourself.
Maybe you could check into "clean" coal and find out that the liquified CO2 that needs to be compressed chilled, transported, and pumped somewhere, underground or under the ocean, ot shot into space, is twice the volume of the coal it came from.
Maybe then you would realize why this "clean' coal is just diversion and delay, not any kind of real GHG reduction plan. That retarded tunnel vision thing could be overcome?
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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biodiversivist Posted 2:58 pm
26 Feb 2009
It asks that we take short showers and turn off the faucet while brushing our teeth.
It takes about a thousand gallons of water to make one gallon of ehtanol.
http://gas2.org/2008/10/16/1000-gallons-water-per-1-gallo ...
In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world
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Green Granny Posted 10:21 pm
26 Feb 2009
Too many people confuse MTR with "strip mining" and think the coal companies "repair" the damage when they are done.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Ghandi
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JosephThePoet Posted 10:23 pm
26 Feb 2009
THEY didn't do it right before, so let's just stop it all. Let's stop using coal because people harvest and use it wrong. Let's stop using wood because people harvest and use it wrong. Let's stop using metals and plastics because people harvest those resources wrong. And meanwhile I'll just get in my car and drive home to my warm home and cook my meal so I can sit and watch TV or go online and pretend I care about the environment and know what I'm talking about when I babble my foolishness. Now, go ahead and tell yourself that you are smarter than a vegetable.
My first book "Life is a Puzzle" was recently published by PublishAmerica.com, under my pen name of JosephThePoet.
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archigeek Posted 11:33 pm
26 Feb 2009
The mellotron is your friend.
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Pompey Road Posted 1:28 am
27 Feb 2009
We are all aware that there is no such thing as a pollution free consumer society we just trade idea's and work the problem until that day, "if there is ever such a day" celebrating every little victory with the knowledge many of us will never see it in our life time. We do what is in our ability to do at the time in space we live in. Stopping MTR does not require a quantum leap in technology it only requires enough people saying enough. So I work toward what is within the realm of possibility and hope to see it in my lifetime, not as much for myself as for the ages I pass it down to.
Most people are not so concrete in their position that they will not undertake the doable while striving toward a higher goal. I see no harm in some going all out for zero environmental pollution as long as they are mindful of the people working the problem in increments or being practical and doing the feasible first.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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Pompey Road Posted 1:55 am
27 Feb 2009
With some mining methods we blast it from the earth moving the overburden off the coal seam with giant earth moving machines, shoving that rubble over into pristine valley's covering up fresh water streams. The term harvest depicts reaping golden shocks of wheat from the land that renews itself in the spring. Even in the face of this extremely environmentally devastating mining method the more practical among us know we are not going to stop all coal mining and can live with that. With conventional underground mining you may remove a coal seam and the mountain may subside "be a few feet shorter" but we still have the mountain, the valley and the fresh water stream. We will do the underground mining even though we must send our people into a life of toil and extreme danger to mine the coal required for the 50% demand for power by coal.
However when we get MTR stopped we will work toward stopping all forms of coal stripping. We will work to eliminate the pollution of wet coal cleaning sludge and fly ash. We will work toward decreasing the demand for coal until we have achieved the final objective of doing away with the demand for coal. We have no illusions of having the ability to eliminate coal from the energy picture over night, a trillion dollar infrastructure has been built around it and we are in the middle of a serious economic downturn. In other words most of us are not so extreme or dogmatic in our methods or rhetoric. Just a persistent progression in incremental steps, maybe hoping for a technological breakthrough but being practical enough to attack the problem where we will have the most chance of success and then moving on to the next challenge.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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J. Walsh Posted 4:08 am
27 Feb 2009
get a grip dude. jeebus.
ignoring for a moment that "clean coal" is a billion(s) dollar subsidy-dependent and hungry boondoggle; does not have a single proven, field tested technology in place; and that there are already better and most cost-effective ways to generate kWh in a less carbon intense way; and the American Council for Clean Coal Electricity's $50M advertising blitz the past year to pick the pockets of taxpayers, I guess we are all just suprised to now learn that "Nothing just "cleanly" appears." stunning news that.
drop the the strawman "logic" and sophistry of "We'll all live in caves and not burn wood to cook our food or to keep warm either." not one is saying that, and it is really easy to ignore your bloviating nonsense when that is the best offered to the conversation.
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JosephThePoet Posted 2:17 am
28 Feb 2009
If they bothered to follow their stupid pretense of logic and applied it to other areas of abuse in our society then we should have to stop manufacturing, producing, and using everything. If they applied the same thinking to the first times they attempted to walk then they would still be crawling, because they were falling down so should have stopped because they were walking wrong.
And of course those who choose to remain ignorant also don't have a clue about sciences and technologies so claim it can't be done. The same ignorant people and "scientists" of the past claimed the earth to be flat and that we couldn't make things fly, like the same ignorant people and "scientists" today make casual comments and assumptions about life as if Darwinism is scientific fact instead of a failed biological theory about the beginning of life that is mathematically impossible based on scientifically applied math that uses even just the minimum number of biological variables needed to sustain life. Too many so-called scientists choose to use only a few factors in their "science" or to deliberately leave out any factors (or parts of a theorem) that prove their thinking wrong, just like the rest of the ignorant babblers who refuse to learn or ever admit that they are ever wrong and just parrot the foolish babble of a group so they can feel they belong.
And the silly light bulbs have mercury in them, so are not environmentally intelligent products. LED lighting is more energy efficient than the silly light bulbs, last longer, and don't contain mercury. Real environmentalism thinking is not just jumping on popular bandwagons that are passing by and claiming one good factor about their concept, like less energy consumption then the current product, but is also looking into as many of the relational factors as possible. If someone wants to be an environmentalist, not just a babbling pretender, than they have to think like scientists should and include the maximum number of variables they can think of just like the "less intelligent" life forms are intelligent enough to do so to increase their survival possibility in their environment.
My first book "Life is a Puzzle" was recently published by PublishAmerica.com, under my pen name of JosephThePoet.
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Pompey Road Posted 4:09 am
28 Feb 2009
I come from an area that has be exploited and decimated by the coal industry. From early in the last century when north east interest stole the coal and the mineral for pennies on the acre and used John Mayo's broad form deed to steal the land we have been exploited by coal. It is not within the scope of a blog to walk you through a portrait of life in Appalachia painted by the coal barons and corporations. The internet is rife with figures on the mine deaths from the early teens on through the killing coal field days of the 20's and 30's. When the bone crushing labor intensive underground mining did not suit their bottom line they started blowing up the mountains to get at thin seams of coal in the process leaving an ecological nightmare for the region to wallow in.
I watched my father get busted up in the mines 5 times before he got crushed to death in a mine roof collapse. I watched a valley rich with family history county history get buried for 2 one foot seams of coal and one 30" seam of coal 150 feet below the mountain ridge. I have been told that I am stupid for fighting Mountain Top Removal in the heart of the Appalachian Coal fields where it is done. Pissing off not only every powerful coal bought politician but numerous powerful people in high places in local and state government. Even family and friends who grovel at the feet of coal corporations for the few scraps that they let fall from the table call me stupid.
Never thought I would be called stupid on an environmental blog though. As might be assumed by someone who was raised in such a hard scrabble place I have thick skin and have also mellowed over the years. I will have to tell you however that flipping that light switch and the current flowing through it being generated by something else besides coal is still a stupid fantasy of mine. I may be jaded by the blasting that is shaking my home as I type or the noise of the tractor trailer coal trucks that keep me up at night. I will also offer an unorthodox opinion about your views concerning the individuals wanting to move to a more carbon friendly fuel source.
We did achieve a rapid transition from a lead additive in a fuel so I feel a rapid change is achievable. However I will admit the brain damage caused by the lead in the fuels and paint cause irreparable damage to some in our society before we could eliminate it. As evident by a person who comes on a blog such as this and banters about words like retarded, stupid and so on. If their brain consisted entirely of that leaded fuel it would not be enough to prime a piss ants go cart. People want a rapid transition from coal for various reasons and will fight for its demise even in the face of the seeming insurmountable odds of converting the lead altered addicted. I tolerate their mentally challenged opinions for the same reason everybody else tolerates my lack of subject matter environmental expertise but I don't have to tolerate their repulsive habit of labeling everybody that does not agree with their infantile arguments stupid or retarded.
You may have to rethink you commercial attempts at hawking that book in your signature quote also. Your abrasive style of blogging may not be conducive to effective advertising techniques if that is what you are attempting to do.
By the way Einstein, what are you trying to do here?
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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amazingdrx Posted 4:36 am
28 Feb 2009
Translation? "You kids get out of my yard!" Hehey.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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amazingdrx Posted 5:17 am
28 Feb 2009
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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Pompey Road Posted 7:51 am
28 Feb 2009
The thing is obsolete, smoking and high maintenance, it's just getting to expensive to maintain and can't pass the emissions test anymore.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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JosephThePoet Posted 9:26 am
28 Feb 2009
Their pappies all provided them with food, heating, and shelter working the available jobs to provide survival for themselves and their families. What they supplied with their work also helped other families in society survive longer and with an increased level of comfort. People and animals suffer and die in their environments but live longer by doing what they need to survive a little longer and to increase their family's survival time. BUT, man is supposed to be intelligent and following that premise then logic would dictate that we as a race would be constantly correcting out the bad ways of doing things instead of continuing to needlessly threaten others of our race and our survival environment. As animals that benefit form a structured social setting you'd think that we'd act more like brothers and family. But instead we worship the individual's right to seek his every pleasure even to the point that the person's actions hurt others and threaten our entire race while we strive to destroy the family structure that benefits our society and race. We are simple reaping the results of a life that we have selfishly chosen to sow.
Wake up to reality children.
We have to live in reality and the reality is that we need coal right now. The delusional demand that we instantly stop all coal usage is proof that some people have a major brain malfunction and/or have very little understanding of the environment they live in or simple choose to not think. Obama has a big stimulus bill and the force of law creating to make coal companies start right away to work towards operating more environmentally responsible if he'd care to use those tools, but just banning coal will destroy the society you live in and make it extremely hard for you and you family to survive in that kind of environment.
What do you think will happen if that power and heat source was instantly eliminated from the society you live in, especially if all coal powered plants were shut down then the world refused to keep loaning the US massively ridiculous amounts of money so the dollar crashes and we couldn't purchase the fuel supplies the country needs to function? Even rebuilding new badly designed coal plants and getting at the coal will require the power we would not have. Do you have your own horse to provide you with transportation and as a labour assistance device that someone else will steal, kill and eat to survive a little longer in that environment?
You don't need to understand electricity, combustion, or technology to know that it is everywhere in the environmental society you live in. Just quiet down from your temper tantrum freaking out mentality thinking and look around you and start thinking about not having power sources. Do this at home and at work, and while out walking or shopping. Think about how food is grown, harvested, preserved, shipped, and stored at your grocery store or how you transport it home and store and cook it. How about your bathroom needs and your other water usage, and the heat and light you use?
If you are going to get involved in trying to change society for the better then you should try to use a semblance of logic and not just babble foolishly. Ever hear the saying that it is better to be though a fool then to open your mouth and leave no doubt. If you are going to try to make the world better and wish to be thought of as environmentally intelligent and caring then don't you think it would be a good idea to put some effort into thinking about what you are proposing instead of letting the narrow minded person do the "thinking" for you? Get involved or don't, but just babbling nonsense only hurts the environmental responsibility cause instead of promoting it.
My first book "Life is a Puzzle" was recently published by PublishAmerica.com, under my pen name of JosephThePoet.
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GreenMom Posted 1:09 pm
28 Feb 2009
To heck with the trolls. Keep on keeping on.
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Pompey Road Posted 1:30 pm
28 Feb 2009
It's a given no body cares about dead miners, or the southern Appalachia forest but not to worry the co2 crowd will have you down to ½ the present coal production for the U.S. in 10 years guaranteed. The scrubbers and the carbon tax will have you buying solar and liking it and if your wind mill ain't turning, the way you run off at the mouth you can probably spin it past the rev point by just talking your antiquated hog wash on windless days.
Coal is done, stick a fork in it. You should also realize you will be on the wrong side of the argument, and will be on the wrong side of history. You are the guy who bought a whaling ship just as J D Rockefeller decided to monopolize the kerosene business. You can cling to your fuel and thinking from the carboniferous period and rail against any kind of progress that frightens the institutionalized and the narrow minded. However you should realize anything you put in print on a blog will be in the permanent electronic record. I tire easily or to be exact get bored with bantering back and forth with dinosaurs. I will let the future decide the fuels of the future carbon boy. I may dig this blog record back up in 10 years or so and write me a book about the fossil heads who had to be pried off the last coal fired power plant like a tree hugger off a redwood.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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Pompey Road Posted 1:38 pm
28 Feb 2009
and I should know better than to be baited by a coal bought blogger. I will be back on a tread where I don't have to take an antacid or say hail mary's after I post.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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Gar Lipow Posted 2:29 pm
28 Feb 2009
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JosephThePoet Posted 1:28 am
01 Mar 2009
But the tunnel-vision "thinkers" don't bother with what is actually said and simple rant like children having temper tantrums. They are also incapable of understanding that their extremely stupid theories of how to approach problems will destroy the very livelihood of those in their society. Retarded approaches to problems only cause more problems and make things worse, but those who choose to remain ignorant don't understand that.
The fools cannot logically argue against what I have actually said, so they pretend I said something else and/or attack me whom they haven't a clue about.
I have been proposing our governments promote wind power and hydrogen fueled vehicle since that farcical Kyoto accord of trading pollution was being signed. But the ignorant would not choose to use the internet, or any other resource, to do any research about that which they choose to foolishly babble about. Ignorance is bliss, and requires a lot less effort.
My first book "Life is a Puzzle" was recently published by PublishAmerica.com, under my pen name of JosephThePoet.
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JosephThePoet Posted 2:12 am
01 Mar 2009
Or of course you can still choose to remain ignorant and just keep babbling to show everyone how stupid you choose to remain.
My first book "Life is a Puzzle" was recently published by PublishAmerica.com, under my pen name of JosephThePoet.
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GreyFlcn Posted 3:28 am
01 Mar 2009
No, it's a demand that we stop building NEW coal plants.
And then start working on new clean energy, and EVENTUALLY phase out the old ones.
Besides which, it's not like we don't have other viable sources of energy to go after.
http://greyfalcon.net/solarenergy.png
http://greyfalcon.net/geoenergy.png
http://greyfalcon.net/solarbaseload
http://greyfalcon.net/egs
-David Ahlport
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Pompey Road Posted 4:22 am
01 Mar 2009
He knows that I or most on here take this position and from a hundred different post if he would take the time to read a few before he rants.
Everyone understands the impossibility of calling for an instant moratorium on coal.
He is just trying to paint us into a corner in order to extricate himself from his coal pit.
and hawk his book
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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Gar Lipow Posted 5:24 am
01 Mar 2009
And its not like you can't disagree here within the rules. Some of the pronuke people are examples of how to maintain a high level of civilty while disagreeing strongly with other posters.
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spaceshaper Posted 5:34 am
01 Mar 2009
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit.
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Pompey Road Posted 6:05 am
01 Mar 2009
And agree, I admitted to the fact I was being baited but continued to let the discussion sink to a level below the dignity and standards of this blog.
Sometimes even when it's easy dueling with an unarmed man, it is not the honorable or mature thing to do.
I will apologize and will adhere to the higher standard of keeping the conversation civil or bowing out of the discussion.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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Pompey Road Posted 6:50 am
01 Mar 2009
It is no fun to troll alone...Should have known better.
The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.
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Gar Lipow Posted 7:15 am
01 Mar 2009
Also in a case where the troll is mainly an insult troll, maybe he can be ignored. But what about a troll who repeats the same lies over and over? YOu ignore them and someone uninformed will be convinced or you respond and and devote a lot of bandwidth to rebutting the same lie repeatedly.
This is where the modererators need to take responsibility. Both insult trolling, and constant repetition need to be deleted. Alternatively there is Daily Kos moderation. Daily Kos has anti-trolling rules, but they are much more lenient than the rules posted here. Only the most extreme trolls get banned. But because the rules allow much stronger debate, the community members drive out the borderline trolls who play games with the rule.
But you know real enforcement of the rules does not have to mean more work for the paid staff of Grist. Given posters right to police threads. Any poster who abuses that right by delete comments that disagree rather than comments that troll loses that right. Give poster who show exception talent for moderation rights to police other threads as well. I don't think there is any board on the Internet that has been successful relying only on paid staff for comment moderation. (Well boing boing has, but that is because they have a person who is paid to do nothing but moderate. I'm guessing Grist does not have the revenue to support something like that.) Hell, even some of our better commenters could probably be trusted wth moderation rights. Spread the work load, and we can minimize troll infestations.
Again, Grist could follow this general plan with different specifics. Trust somebody besides your paid staff to moderate. Use your best judgement as to whom to trust. You don't have to even have a fixed criteria. Just pick some people to ask to be moderators. Give the people you trust moderation rights. If you make a mistake, and someone abuses those rights, take them away and pick somebody else. A lot of posters, and commenters would be happy to share the workload. If you guys (Grist staff) don't have the time, take advantage of that, and get some troll-be-gone mojo. I predict that if you do that, within six months the number of people commenting will increase significantly. Zero additional money cost, higher page view count.
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Russ Posted 7:20 am
01 Mar 2009
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Gar Lipow Posted 8:49 am
01 Mar 2009
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amazingdrx Posted 2:19 pm
01 Mar 2009
By allowing this nonsense here, Grist puts the responsibility on us to do battle against them. That hones our arguments and skills, which in turn sways reader's opinions. It's not how we feel about trolls, it's the readers that count. We already have the GHG battling fever.
Take a cue from Colbert and Stewart, Maddow and Olbermann, humor often works where reason fails. Readers enjoy a laugh at the trollishness, and it swings them over to our side. Does the motto still say: gloom and doom with a sense of humor? Hehey.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin
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Bruceslog Posted 12:55 am
02 Mar 2009
Great Ad.
I want to see it on TV as often as I see ads for Lysol, Automobiles, and Sarah Paulin !
" All we have to decide is what we are going to do with the time we are given ".- Gandalf the Grey
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