A Non-Starter?

Ask Umbra on anti-idling campaigns 15

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Q. Dear Umbra,

My daughter’s Girl Scout troop wants to start an anti-idling campaign at her school. We need help justifying why a car should be turned off for more than 30 seconds. Although they have found that it saves gas and wear and tear on the engine and other parts, very few people believe that 30 seconds is long enough.  Most believe that their starter, in particular, will need to be replaced, thereby reducing the gas savings.  Can you point us to definitive information about idling and when and why to turn off your engine?  Thanks.

Kew100
Brentwood, Tenn.

A. Dearest Kew,

school bus stop signStop idling (and stop worrying about your starter).madame.furie via flickrIsn’t a car made to last through tens of thousands of stops and starts? You don’t find these same pro-idling people assiduously avoiding frequent car trips in order to lengthen the overall life of their car. I’m missing some piece of the logic train wherein the engine knows that the driver maybe could have chosen to leave it running, and it takes revenge by breaking down sooner.

In my own personal car experience, the failure of starters is more closely linked to car manufacturer than to age or anti-idling. But personal experience is not definitive information, so instead I am going to point you to bossy federal agencies and a helpful nationwide anti-idling campaign.

First, let us reflect on why we are anti-idling. Idling a passenger car is almost always unnecessary, it wastes gas, and it produces myriad air pollutants (as detailed in one of my previous columns). Schoolchildren’s mouths are closer to both engine and tailpipe (by virtue of their height, not because they are licking engines), so these polluting emissions enter their sensitive young bodies with ease. Larger diesel engines, such as would be found in a school bus or delivery truck, have the same issues, only diesel fuel is dirtier than gasoline. Most idling emissions research has been done on these diesel engines, and there are idling regulations now in many states (some include all engines, not just diesel). Tennessee does not appear to have anti-idling regulations.

One helpful resource for you might be Earth Day Network’s No Idling Campaign. It’s based on a Georgia No Idling campaign, is aimed at schoolchildren, and includes toolkits, data collection charts, and lesson plans. In terms of the “definitive information”: Here is a serious refutation of the starter damage myth from the California Energy Commission; some data and resources on school bus idling from the EPA (including curriculum materials); and a short EPA sheet that references the 30-second rule. Another way to look at it is that no reputable source recommends idling.

If you commence your campaign and still have trouble with families worried about the imminent failure of their car, it might be effective to find a reputable local mechanic or car dealer who will vouch for the durability of the starter. The federal government is simply not persuasive enough in some situations—too far away, too easily linked to a disliked leader. A community expert might be just the person you need. Best of luck.

Alternatorly,
Umbra

 

 

Yours is to wonder why, hers is to answer (or try). Send your green-living questions to Umbra.

Umbra Fisk is Grist Research Associate II, Hardcover and Periodicals Unit, floors 2B-4B.

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  1. Toadspotter Posted 11:42 am
    30 Sep 2009

    Thanks Umbra,
    If I may be inappropriate for a moment: You are so hot. You are like Scooby Doo's Daphne and Velma together in one hot smart real babe. I couldn't think of anything more desirable (well maybe Bugs Bunny dressed in drag but still...).
    That being said I want to thank you for the tips. I found on one of the links that the state of Missouri has an idling limiting law. I have been frustrated with buses that drop kids off at the Museum then proceed to idle all day there. Now I feel I have some Law to back up my concerned citizen opinion. I think it would be really cool to get some signs up next to bus parking zone signs that say "No idle zone" or "Limited idling" or something. I do feel for the Bus drivers who have to sit out there in the winter all day- but there should be a place for them inside or another solution. Any suggestions on who to approach? The Museum? City hall? Guerrilla sign posting? Jinkies! Do you have a clue?
    Thanks,
    Dj

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  2. billmitchell Posted 12:30 pm
    30 Sep 2009

    Umbra, Al and Ray at Car Talk have a very good rap on idling. Aside from parents loitering around schools, being trapped in a ferry line waiting for a delayed boat, surounded by folks idling their cars and big pickups is a real drag. Seems that the state motor vehicle departments ought to be on it as well as US DOT. Highway funds are a wonderful leverage. Keep it up. Bill

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  3. coronan Posted 12:34 pm
    30 Sep 2009

    Gas and Diesel engines use extreemly rich fuel mixtures to get the motor spinning. The EPA articles say; a 3 or 10 minute break over point for emmissions. That's huge!!!! I'm never at a stop light that long. How do they justify the 30-sec rule?
    Has anyone see hard graphs? Can any one share information from realtime gas analizers?
    I'm still very skeptical... nate

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  4. dave Posted 1:26 pm
    30 Sep 2009

    dear Miss Umbra,

    my understanding of the reluctance to turning off your vehicle while sitting ("anti-idling") is due to the old, but presumably true, theory that in a carburated vehicle, it truly takes more gas to start it than it does to idle it for, say a loooong time (like many minutes). so if you're driving a'67 Nova, then, don't turn it off to save gas if you're only going to be there for a few minutes... let it run, and you save gas (not commenting on emissions, &c.).
    now, reality currently is that almost every car is fuel-injected, which is more fuel-efficient, and you should DEFINITELY turn off your vehicle if it's gonna idle for more than, say, one minute.
    any talk about a starter wearing out is simply ridiculous.
    my $.02...
    dave

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  5. bailsout Posted 8:49 pm
    30 Sep 2009

    In 2000, Honda produced its first hybrid, the Insight. The most aerodynamic production car ever made, it also incorporated an automatic idle stop. When you begin to slow down for a stop and the speedometer reads less than 8-10mph the car will shut off if the transmission is in neutral or the clutch pedal depressed. It automatically and immeditately starts as soon as the shifter is put into gear. The first generation Insight was discontinued and the second generation Insight cannot match the mpg that the original attained. The first generation Insight only sits two, but apparently production stopped on this design because Americans want bigger cars for their family and friends. When I'm in commuter traffic I wonder where all those friends and family are because I only see one occupant, the driver.
    My Insight currently gets 60mpg with over 200,000 miles.
    The technology is here to combat idling wastes. And so is the ability to turn off the ignition and restart.

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  6. Wrightsfd Posted 10:19 pm
    30 Sep 2009

    Anti-idle technologies like the original Insight are in place in many cars throughout the world (mostly Europe). Here in the USA certain Chevy pickup trucks have this, all full-hybrids have this, and others are on their way. These systems don't work when the temperature is cold, most hybrids (the Prius for example) run constantly to keep the heat going inside the vehicle and get significantly less fuel mileage in winter. This type of technology will eventually become standard in all cars if WE request it from the manufacturers.

    I should now mention that I am a bus driver. I work for a high profile limousine and bus service in Chicago and I am very often sitting for hours at a time and generally have the bus turned off. Knowing my co-workers like I do I know that they often idle for long periods of time because they do not feel like turning a vehicle off in hot or cold weather, also the lights and systems inside the party busses do not work without the engine running. Lastly we drivers like to listen to the radio and even watch TV or videos when we sit (often for 3 or 4 hours at a time) and many vehicles do not allow this unless they are running. In Chicago a diesel vehicle must be turned off unless loading or unloading however gasoline powered vehicles are not regulated by our local police. Diesel vehicles use very little fuel while idling, even the 12.7 liter motor-coaches, but are annoying to smell and hear so I suspect the anti-idle laws are more for the comfort of the passers by than for fuel economy.

    I'm working on greening our fleet but I'm a peon and the powers that be at my company think absolutely nothing of anything remotely "green" and they will be hard to change but I applaud KEW100 for their efforts.

    My opinion is that better timing of traffic lights and roads that are properly constructed from the beginning will result in a much greater savings of fuel. For example, my 14 mile late night commute home usually takes 35 minutes, not because of traffic congestion, but because I sit (often the only car) at red light after red light after red light.

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  7. Tadah Posted 8:55 am
    01 Oct 2009

    There is actually a successful no-idle program right here in the Pacific Northwest. A group called the Northwest Air Quality Communicators, consisting of representatives from air quality agencies throughout Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and British Columbia, has posted a "cookbook" that is available to anyone wishing to start a program at a school, place of business, or other organization. Visit this link for information: http://www.airwatchnorthwest.org/wa/NO_IDLE/index.asp

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  8. datruthfordastupid Posted 12:06 pm
    01 Oct 2009

    Why don't you idiots ask the continent of Europe why they have a regulation against idling a vehicle for more than 30 seconds in any situation (stop-light, parked, etc.)? It has been in place for several years and I am sure they had a sound reason for including it in their driving code. This question asks why they should turn of the vehicle for 30 seconds, not if you are going to be idling for more than 30 seconds which would be the correct question to ask. They would probably find answers quickly if they asked the right question. Americans are so stupid.

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  9. kew100 Posted 4:39 pm
    01 Oct 2009

    My European friend. As a typical American, I could not possibly follow this thread in any other language other than English and for that I am envious of your abilities. I admit that I worded the question such that it sounds as if I was asking about turning the car off for 30 seconds rather than if I was to idle for more than 30 seconds, I should turn the car off. It would seem most of the English speakers gave my poorly worded question the benefit of the doubt. However, you are correct, literally it is a stupid question. I assure you, I meant the latter not the former.

    Thank you all for your responses. My girls love that this is being taken up on the web.

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  10. MeatisMurder Posted 11:20 am
    02 Oct 2009

    DaTruthforDaStupid, well said; you are a beacon of clarity in this sea of idiocy known as America. Next time we will ask the "continent of Europe" instead, as that is sage advice. Do you have the continent of Europe's phone number or email address?

    Umbra, thanks for the thorough, as always, response. However, you have just been dethroned by the continent of Europe.

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  11. BadRabbit's avatar

    BadRabbit Posted 1:37 pm
    02 Oct 2009

    I think that a lot of people keep their cars running while idling so they can have the heat or AC going.

    I think more effort should be given to getting school kids to ride the bus than an anti-idling campaign.

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  12. katakanadian Posted 9:54 pm
    05 Oct 2009

    Badrabbit,

    I can tell you that I saw virtually no difference in idling behaviour throughout the year in Japan (which has a horridly common habit of idling). Summer heat made aircon mandatory but winters weren't too bad. Spring and autumn usually had no need for heat or air con yet I saw just as many cars idling in the supermarket parking lot while the owners shopped inside.

    More effort should be put into getting more kids to walk and bike to school. Yes, I know it's not possible for absolutely everyone but most kids are within a reasonable distance. Often the greatest threat to walking kids' safety is the pollution and too many rushing parents on the road. A national health care program would be much more affordable if kids didn't grow up so unfit.

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  13. BadRabbit's avatar

    BadRabbit Posted 3:28 am
    06 Oct 2009

    Why do so many parents insist on driving their kids to school? At my son's school, kids don't have to be to school until 9:10 and the longest bus ride is maybe 10 minutes. I imagine it's one of the following reasons. Parents are afraid of bullying on the bus, and they need to get their overscheduled to their activity right after school. I agree that more kids should be walking or riding their bikes to school. At the very least, a lot of these kids need to be riding the bus.

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  14. kew100 Posted 3:36 am
    06 Oct 2009

    Our school starts at 7:40am for middle schoolers and 7:25 for high schoolers. Some students are on the bus for at almost an hour in the morning and in the afternoon. If a student is involved in any after school program, they must be picked up as there are no buses. We are a suburban school spread out over a very large, sparsely populated area. Only a few students are within a ten minute walk or bike ride from the school. I see maybe 20 students walking and only a few riding bikes. Many high school students drive their own cars because of after school programs off the campus. All in all, we are victims of our geography and urban/suburban design.

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  15. coronan Posted 6:12 am
    06 Oct 2009

    Unfornutately, we Ammericans need to go through a paradime shift. Technology may help us but It CAN NOT SAVE US. Pedal power needs to be realized. I grew up in the suburbia of the east bay, California. I started riding my bike to school in 6th grade. 2 miles each way. 7mi one way to college. It would take me the same time as those driving because of congested streets. It prolonged my necessity for a car untill 18 ('cause the buss system takes forever), & I needed it durring work hours. And then I made sure to ride 20mi once a week to work.
    It has made cycling a staple in my life and I can attribute it to my fitness. Wasted commute in a car time became excercise time.

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