What a 1-Degree Temperature Increase Means for Wildfires

Global warming, California, and wildfires 20

wildfire and housesThe scientific literature paints a hellish future if we don’t quickly reverse greenhouse gas emissions trends (see “Climate change expected to sharply increase Western wildfire burn area — as much as 175% by the 2050s”).  Even the watered down, consensus-based 2007 IPCC report acknowledged the danger:

A warming climate encourages wildfires through a longer summer period that dries fuels, promoting easier ignition and faster spread. Westerling et al. (2006 — see here) found that, in the last three decades, the wildfire season in the western U.S. has increased by 78 days, and burn durations of fires >1000 ha have increased from 7.5 to 37.1 days, in response to a spring-summer warming of 0.87°C. Earlier spring snowmelt has led to longer growing seasons and drought, especially at higher elevations, where the increase in wildfire activity has been greatest. In the south-western U.S., fire activity is correlated with ENSO positive phases, and higher Palmer Drought Severity Indices….

Insects and diseases are a natural part of ecosystems. In forests, periodic insect epidemics kill trees over large regions, providing dead, desiccated fuels for large wildfires. These epidemics are related to aspects of insect life cycles that are climate sensitive.

Now brutal heat and drought are fueling massive California wildfires once again (see, for instance, the BBC piece “Heat fuelling California wildfire”).  We can’t expect much from the status quo media (see “CNN, ABC, WashPost, and AP blow Australian wildfire, drought, heat-wave story”).  So here is CAP’s Tom Kenworthy explaining What a 1-Degree Temperature Increase Means for Wildfires”—and I’ll end with some comments on this positive or amplifying carbon-cycle feedback:

map of affected areas

To the average person a 1-degree rise in average spring and summer temperatures may not seem like much. But for residents of the western United States—including California, which is fighting at least eight fires right now—it could mean a staggering increase in the extent and cost of fires according to a recent study.

In their report, researchers at Headwaters Economics, an independent nonprofit research group in Bozeman, Mont., predict that climate change and the accelerating movement of western residents to areas near or in undeveloped forests will likely prove to be a devastating combination. That 1-degree increase in spring and summer temperatures, they conclude, will increase the area burned by seasonal fires in Montana by more than 300 percent and more than double the cost of protecting homes threatened by fire.

Though the Headwaters paper focuses on Montana, using data from 18 large fires in the state during 2006 and 2007, it has implications for fire-prone areas throughout the Rocky Mountain West. And it builds on a growing body of evidence that inaction on climate change will cost the western United States dearly.

Earlier this summer, for example, Harvard University scientists published a study in the Journal of Geophysical Research predicting that areas burned by wildfires in the West could increase by 50 percent by 2050, with even larger increases of 75 percent to 175 percent in the Pacific Northwest and Rocky Mountain West. Those increases could have “large impacts on human health” because of the added smoke and particulates released into the air, the study said.

Federal and state agencies responsible for fighting western wildfires, particularly the United States Forest Service, are already struggling to cope with the rapidly increasing costs of protecting lives and property. Since 2000, wildland fires in the United States have burned an average of more than 7 million acres a year, about double the average acreage for the previous four decades.

Federal firefighting costs have also risen dramatically, according to the Government Accountability Office, averaging $2.9 billion per year from fiscal 2001-2005 compared to $1.1 billion in the previous five-year period.

The Headwaters study predicts that state wildland firefighting costs in Montana will double to quadruple by 2025.

The increasing popularity of building homes in or near forested areas, known as the wildland-urban interface, or WUI, is a major factor in the escalating costs of fire suppression. A 2006 report by the Department of Agriculture’s Office of Inspector General found that “the majority of [Forest Service] large fire suppression costs are directly linked to protecting private property in the WUI,” with Forest Service managers estimating between 50 and 95 percent of large fire costs spent on that purpose alone. Though federal agencies shoulder the major financial burden for protecting those homes, development decisions in wild areas are made by local and state officials.

“While fire-prone lands are being developed, the climate is warming, leading to more large fires,” write the authors of the Headwaters Economics report, which notes that with just 14 percent of the wildland urban interface developed in the West, the cost of protecting those areas will increase significantly. “More development in these sensitive areas would lead to more wildfire suppression costs, even in the absence of climate change. Climate change will only exacerbate this effect.”

Climate change and its impacts on temperature, drought, and snowpack runoff will affect fires as well as many other aspects of life in the West.

Climate models predict that global warming will significantly reduce snow runoff in the West, the region’s major source of water. A study published in April by the Scripps Institution of Oceanography estimated that the Colorado River, the lifeline for 27 million people in the Southwest, will not be able to produce its allocated water supply 60 percent to 90 percent of the time by mid-century. That would have major impacts on food production, recreation, and development in the fastest-growing region in the nation. It will also mean forests will dry out sooner, with a likely increase in fire activity.

And in recent years, a widespread and so far unchecked epidemic of mountain pine beetles that has killed millions of acres of trees from Colorado north into Canada has laid the foundation for a potentially large increase in catastrophic fires. Climate change has played a role in that outbreak, too, as warmer winters spare the beetles from low temperatures that would normally kill them off, and drought stresses trees.

In the western United States, mountain pine beetles have killed some 6.5 million acres of forest, according to the Associated Press. As large as that path of destruction is, it’s dwarfed by the 35 million acres killed in British Columbia, which has experienced a rash of forest fires this summer that as of early this month had burned more than 155,000 acres. In the United States to date about 5.2 million acres—an area larger than Massachusetts—have burned this year.

Destruction of trees by the mountain pine beetle, combined with climate change and fire, makes for a dangerous feedback loop. Dead forests sequester less carbon dioxide. Burning forests release lots of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. More carbon dioxide adds to climate change, which raises temperatures, stresses forests, and makes more and bigger fires more likely.

It’s a frightening prospect, as British Columbia’s Forests Minister Pat Bell told an International Energy Agency conference last week. “I am not a doomsayer,” said Bell. “I am not one who wants to say we are beyond the tipping point. But I am afraid that we are getting close to that.”

The final reason to worry about the climate-wildfire connection is that wildfires are a classic amplifying feedback, since burning forests release carbon dioxide that accelerates global warming. As the 2006 Science article, “Warming and Earlier Spring Increase Western U.S. Forest Wildfire Activity” (subs. req’d), concludes soberly:

… virtually all climate-model projections indicate that warmer springs and summers will occur over the region in coming decades. These trends will reinforce the tendency toward early spring snowmelt and longer fire seasons. This will accentuate conditions favorable to the occurrence of large wildfires, amplifying the vulnerability the region has experienced since the mid-1980s. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s consensus range of 1.5° to 5.8°C projected global surface temperature warming by the end of the 21st century is considerably larger than the recent warming of less than 0.9°C observed in spring and summer during recent decades over the western region.

If the average length and intensity of summer drought increases in the Northern Rockies and mountains elsewhere in the western United States, an increased frequency of large wildfires will lead to changes in forest composition and reduced tree densities, thus affecting carbon pools. Current estimates indicate that western U.S. forests are responsible for 20 to 40% of total U.S. carbon sequestration. If wildfire trends continue, at least initially, this biomass burning will result in carbon release, suggesting that the forests of the western United States may become a source of increased atmospheric carbon dioxide rather than a sink, even under a relatively modest temperature-increase scenario. Moreover, a recent study has shown that warmer, longer growing seasons lead to reduced CO2 uptake in high-elevation forests, particularly during droughts. Hence, the projected regional warming and consequent increase in wildfire activity in the western United States is likely to magnify the threats to human communities and ecosystems, and substantially increase the management challenges in restoring forests and reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

We are simply running out of time to stop all of the carbon-cycle feedbacks from intensifying and to stop these devastating, record-breaking wildfires from becoming the normal climate.

Joseph Romm is the editor of Climate Progress and a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress.

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  1. newnoah Posted 6:23 pm
    01 Sep 2009

    “I am not a doomsayer,” said Bell. “I am not one who wants to say we are beyond the tipping point. But I am afraid that we are getting close to that.”As Joseph Romm eloquently describes our predicament faced with Hansen's new vision of climate change: 1. Staying below 450 ppm is technologically doable, but would be the greatest achievement in the history of the human race, by far. It would require a global effort sustained for decades comparable to what the U.S. did for just the few years of World War II (the biggest obstacle is not technological, but political ­ conservatives currently would never let progressives and moderates pursue such a strategy). 2. If 350 ppm is needed (and I’m not at all sure it is) then the deniers and delayers have won, since such a target is hopeless. But hopeless is not an option if Hansen is right. If the climate change diagnosis is now akin to a possible terminal illness then we must get out of denial and make the drastic, radical, unthinkable, impossible life style changes necessary or were toast. http://www.countercurrents.org/henderson180408.htmOr do we just rely on Waxman-Markey and the Western States Initiative?"The first, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in February, showed that the climate change we cause today will be "largely irreversible for 1,000 years after emissions stop". About 40% of the carbon dioxide produced by humans this century will remain in the atmosphere until at least the year 3000. Moreover, thanks to the peculiar ways in which the oceans absorb heat from the atmosphere, global average temperatures are likely to "remain approximately constant … until the end of the millennium despite zero further emissions"."  It's time to alter course  Monbiothttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/01/global-warming-emissions-fossil-fuelsbill (at) pacificfringe.net  
  2. lasmog Posted 7:12 pm
    01 Sep 2009

    I've been breathing the smoke of the LA fire for several day now and it is a miserable experience.  The air is filthy, yes filthier than normal, and I just brushed more ash off my car.  I suspect that global warming is making our fire season more intense each year and I shudder to think what the future may hold for my state.  I also wonder why we continue to spend so much public money each year protecting a small number of homes that are situated in our most fire prone canyons.  I would hate so see anyone lose their home to fire but when you build your home on a tinder-dry hillside you are courting disaster. 
  3. kkloor Posted 7:12 pm
    01 Sep 2009

    I suggest that Grist readers pay more attention to what Steve Pyne has to say about wildlfire than Joe Romm.
  4. Craig Allen's avatar

    Craig Allen Posted 7:42 pm
    01 Sep 2009

    Hieronymus Bosch forsaw it.
  5. amazingdrx's avatar

    amazingdrx Posted 10:46 pm
    01 Sep 2009

    Fire, precursor to desertification.  The feedback loops of GHG released by fire and less carbon capture due to the loss of greenery and increased solar heat absorption by blackened landscape; all point in that direction, deserification.But the article hits on a much more immediate bottomline consideration: namely, the sheer cost of not only fighting fires, but the loss of all those homes and comminuities.  It devestates the local economy.The cost of renewable energy re-evolution pays for itself many times over in economic growth and the cancellation of energy cost related inflation to our standard of living and financial security.  Business cycles manipluated by oil producing nations and corporations are extremely destructive to our financial well being, as we all now well know.But just the cost of fire fighting and insurance losses ought to give a bottomline conclusion to the climate change debate.  Fix it or go broke from the disasters alone, it's really just that simple.  Can even the simpletons in boardrooms and government halls realize this and act in time?  Maybe not.  We are evidently talking about people who are dumber than duuhbya, palin, and "joe the plumber".  Yow!
  6. emil300 Posted 10:59 pm
    01 Sep 2009

    The wildfires have nothing to do with global warming or the degradation
    of the environment. Wildfires are a natural part of southern
    California's ecosystem and the chaparral native to the state relies on
    fire to germinate it's seeds. The hills have been burning long before
    man ever settled in California.
    The above is way, way wrong. Fire is VERY natural and has occured LONG
    before man arrived. Fire would roam California for months at a time -
    completely natural. The reason fire is so intense is because man as
    continued to put fires out as soon a possible. This would help build up
    fuel at an alarming rate. It's just a matter of time before this burns.
    It's like a huge bomb! Add to that more and more houses being built in
    areas that saw fire on a routine basis and you get a disaster.

    1. Tyler Durden Posted 1:14 am
      02 Sep 2009

      You miss the point.  No one is saying that wildfires are unnatural.  What's going on is that global climate change is causing more extreme weather patterns, which in southern California means hotter drier weather, which means more and bigger fires.  I agree with you that wildfires are not only natural but necessary for the health of these ecosystems and that unnatural human fire suppression -- in addition to being ecologically harmful per se -- causes even bigger and hotter fires eventually, but global climate change will also cause more and bigger fires.
      1. foodprovider's avatar

        foodprovider Posted 11:59 am
        03 Sep 2009

        Tyler, Global warming is not causing more fires in CA.  There were more fires per year in the early 1900's than there are today. The climate has changed since the beginning of time.  Heck, in the 70's we were headed into an ice age.  The earth's temps have been cooling in the last few yrs.  Everything works in cycles. 
  7. RaptureForums Posted 11:06 pm
    01 Sep 2009

    Praying for the people caught in the path of these fires.http://www.raptureforums.com
  8. Tyler Durden Posted 1:10 am
    02 Sep 2009

    Isn't it ironic that California, where people drive more than anywhere, will get increased fires because of, among other things, driving?
  9. kkloor Posted 6:19 am
    02 Sep 2009

    Tyler,
    The point I'm trying to make is that Joe Romm is exploiting the wildfires (which are largely the result of a fire-prone landscape, bad fire policy and human settlement) to advance his global warming narrative. I say this is irresponsible because it "misdirects" attention from the real causes, to paraphrase Steve Pyne. Those causes truly need to be better understood and addressed.
  10. dcashdan Posted 3:27 pm
    02 Sep 2009

    We posted about this a few days ago......big problem - right in front of our eyes!!!www.theclimatecommunity.com
  11. phasthutch Posted 7:59 pm
    02 Sep 2009

    From what I have read we do not recognize the problem until it is too late.   Even if all the negative effects on the atmosphere were stopped we would still be looking at years before things turned around.  No, we are in line for serious climate change no matter what we do.   Does that mean we give up?  Of course not!  Igt is more important than ever that we make the necessary changes in world energy use and ( dare I say it?) POPULATION GROWTH.  This planet cannot sustain six billion now, two billion of which are in line to try for first world consumer status.  Wildfires will continue to expand in the regions becoming more desertified even as some regions see colder and wetter weather. i am already apologizing to my daughter and grandchildren.
  12. megaloptera Posted 1:34 pm
    05 Sep 2009

    Hi Joe, Maybe you can tell Senator Boxer to make sure that the Senate climate change bill excludes incinerators as forms of renewable energy. After all, burning forests in an incinerator to make "renewable electricity" emits CO2 just like those wildfires! But Waxman and Markey thought it was such a good idea, they put it in ACES and it appears Boxer and Kerry like it too!

    Check out http://www.nobiomassburning.org and http://www.massenvironmentalenergy.org

    Or join our Tour:
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    The Climate SOS Heartland Tour will feature meetings with senate staffers in North Dakota, Indiana, Arkansas, and Ohio. Climate SOS team members Duff Badgley of Seattle, Dr. Bill Sammons of Massachusetts, and Susan Laing, a photojournalist are traveling by bus and train, and will touch down in Bismarck on September 8, in Indianapolis (September 10-11), Little Rock (September 14-15), and Cleveland (September 17-18).

    The team’s message? "Kill the Bill - Worse Than Nothing is Not Good Enough!"
    Climate scientist Dr. James Hansen has personally endorsed the Climate SOS campaign. According to Hansen, if the senate climate bill is based upon the house-passed American Clean Energy and Security Act (ACESA), it will be "worse for the environment than doing nothing." Climate SOS maintains that cap-and-trade will be ineffective in forestalling climate change, and supports EPA authority over carbon dioxide emissions.

    Climate SOS opposes the use of carbon offsets and believes that polluting coal plants should be phased out quickly. Climate SOS asserts that incineration technologies must not be categorized as “renewable” and targets loopholes in the bill that allow unlimited carbon dioxide emissions from biomass and trash burners. Climate SOS holds that social justice concerns must be central to any climate legislation, and maintains that the federal climate bill currently under consideration would:
    -Prevent the U.S. from making its fair share of greenhouse gas reductions
    necessary to forge an effective global strategy on climate stabilization and to avert catastrophic climate change.
    -Lock the United States into a complex cap-and-trade scheme that benefits fossil fuel utilities, Wall Street, and agribusiness. Cap and trade will be prone to Enron-style market manipulations, while doing nothing to save the climate. • Use public money to subsidize the most polluting industries, drawing much needed financing away from real climate solutions.
    - Add more polluting smokestacks, especially in backyards of the poor, people of color, and indigenous communities across the U.S., by grandfathering dirty old coal plants, permitting numerous new ones, and subsidizing incinerators as a form of renewable energy
    - Trigger rainforest destruction in Africa, the Amazon, and Southeast Asia through its failure to incorporate indirect land use change provisions in the Renewable Fuel Standards (RFS) for biofuels. Climate SOS - http://www.ClimateSOS.org No dirty climate bill, no false solutions! email : (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

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    l[0]='>';l[1]='a';l[2]='/';l[3]='';l[27]='\"';l[28]=' 103';l[29]=' 114';l[30]=' 111';l[31]=' 46';l[32]=' 115';l[33]=' 111';l[34]=' 115';l[35]=' 101';l[36]=' 116';l[37]=' 97';l[38]=' 109';l[39]=' 105';l[40]=' 108';l[41]=' 99';l[42]=' 64';l[43]=' 116';l[44]=' 99';l[45]=' 97';l[46]=' 116';l[47]=' 110';l[48]=' 111';l[49]=' 99';l[50]=':';l[51]='o';l[52]='t';l[53]='l';l[54]='i';l[55]='a';l[56]='m';l[57]='\"';l[58]='=';l[59]='f';l[60]='e';l[61]='r';l[62]='h';l[63]='a ';l[64]='
  13. Lezlie's avatar

    Lezlie Posted 5:41 am
    09 Sep 2009

    Look most of these fires are deliberately lit. Second it is due to wrong practices used that enables them. It is not a natural cycle for huge insect infestations creating dead wood that is a symptom of an unbalanced sick forest, caused by the over use of chemicals, pesticides herbicides etc. Man made  again. Not to overlook the chemtrails HAARP & the governments interference to control the weather in the negative.It has nothing to do with CO2's this is a total lie and total scam. In fact the soils are carbon defcient, & no one seems to understand the very basics of this cycle.  So what do they do the opposite of what is needed and then tax you for living, whilst the ones creating it get your money & continue their destruction. You know the economic collapse that they orchestrated is now being orchestrated on the environment. The environmentalist & the people who care are  falling for it due to lack of real knowledge. The planet is not warming it is in fact cooling, the anomolies in the weather are being deliberatly created.For those who need a 101 lesson in the true carbon cycle it goes like this, man breathes in oxygen & breathes out CO2 the trees breathe this in splitting the CO2  taking the carbon to build growth & returning the oxygen so you can breathe. The carbon is then meant to be returned to the soil being old leaves dead wood falling to create humus, that requires a chemical free environment to build soils due to the microbes whose job it is to do. But this is intercepted by man with the use of chemicals in the form of herbicides pesticides, GM farming in the BT, chemtrails, other pollution from toxic factories, which kills these microbes which is meant to return the carbon back to the soil, creating humus & holding moisture. Instead this carbon is not returned the soils become depleted, they no longer hold the moisture, the plants become diseased & the pests move in. Things become so inbalanced that the rains do not come. As the moisture that is meant to be retained in the soils can no longer be so along with the bacteria & microbial life which brings the rains. On top of all of this we have these people doing all manner of things to destroy these cycles on every level. Chemtrails to create droughts etc with all of this leading to perfect conditions for fire , especially when you have crazy firebugs about to help it.Now for those who are yet to get it, they are now wishing to tax you on your out breathe, the pollutors continue, they just buy credits yet they hold the shares in the first place. Just wait if you fools fall for this you will be taxed next on the next environmental disaster your in breathe for their will be little plants left producing oxygen so it will have to be rationed.Really I can hardly believe any one is falling for this but as they say the bigger the lie the harder they fall. Down crashes the forests & the naive ones forgeting what free breathing is. This article is just another example how they can twist anything & appear as if it is the truth for people who do not know or can not really think. Shame shame.So please can we get to the real causes, & those creating it.
    1. T Posted 9:21 am
      09 Sep 2009

      Lezlie - I would like to know your profession and why you claim to know all you know about the carbon cycle and microbes? I happen to be a forest ecologist who studies such topics and would contest many of your claims to be false. You have a VERY BASIC understanding of the carbon cycle, and while correct in general, the claim that all the pesticides and herbicides have killed microbes and now soils aren't accumulating humus and thus carbon is insanely idiotic. These chemicals likely have affects on microbes (i.e., fungi and bacteria) but I have seen no study that backs what you claim. All one needs to do is look at any thesis on biogeochemistry to see that carbon is still being cycled through the forest, but perhapds at altered rates than previously found in non-human distrubed forests. Second, your claim regarding insect outbreaks being an unnatural cycle, there may be some truth to that depending on the insect and forest you choose to talk about. The one referred to in this article is the mountain pine beetle, which favors lodgepole pine, and over mellenia has evolved a specific cycle in which lodgepole pine treees grow to a certain size preferrable to the beetle, are attacked and killed, and then die and fall over (which you claim to be a sick forest) and add carbon back to the soil via decompostion of the wood. Yes, leaves and branches do add carbon to the soil, but not nearly as much as decaying large woody debris. Many of these forests would naturally burn following these massive insect outbreaks, which the '88 Yellowstone fires are a perfect example of.Next time, consult with an ecologist, or do some literature reviews before claiming to know all there is about something you don't have an expertise in.
  14. Lezlie's avatar

    Lezlie Posted 10:12 am
    09 Sep 2009

    In reply to the one saying I have no idea of what I am talking about who so far has not left his name!First I have over 40 years of experience & knowledge in this area. First I am a biodynamic ecologist & farmer. Who has studied the various problems in many areas that this planet is facing & to why it is.Albeit my comments earlier were done in a basic way as at times I find no one even understands the very basics to anything these days nor the historical wholeistic perspective let alone ever getting to the real cause of anything for they themselves have no real knowledge just what they have been taught & by whom I might ask.For you to blatantly say & I qoute " the claim that all the pesticides and herbicides have
    killed microbes and now soils aren't accumulating humus and thus carbon is
    insanely idiotic. These chemicals likely have affects on microbes (i.e.,
    fungi and bacteria) but I have seen no study that backs what you claim. All
    one needs to do is look at any thesis on biogeochemistry to see that carbon
    is still being cycled through the forest, but perhapds at altered rates than
    previously found in non-human distrubed forests"You contradict yourself completely, have you ever wondered why the two forests are different? Yes carbon is being recycled through the forest in burning. Now an occassional fire is not a bad thing but what you are experiencing say in California is a call for you to wake up & see the whole picture. Few ever do. As for no real studies well they are there real data from real scientists in this area. I will provide them for you if you are really interested. To believe what another has written in a thesis again does you no favours for who is to say they are correct? Proof is in the pudding & I have made many, one learns one learns more, sometimes you have to start from scratch as the pudding is no good.I speak from experience & I am also a farmer, I have gone into land that is totally denuded in topsoil & humus both in forest areas & grazing areas holding no moisture. With the right practices which I use & the biodynamic preparations which reinstates the right microbial life one can turn the non existant top soil & non existant humus into rich humus soil & thus healthy environments with no over infestation of pests. Every symptom of pests is an indication of an imbalance. All serious imbalances such as these fires today are direct cause to what I wrote in my previous post if you can see the whole picture & not just a symptom. You can never cure a wound by merely treating the symptom, you have to get to the real cause.With pests one has to ask why what is the imbalance & then rectify it. No healthy plant like any healthy human can even carry pests or diseases.What I really find with all this so called education is this, most do not question if what they are being taught is in fact the truth, second they have forgotten how to think or have never been shown how to think, third they never really see the hidden principles behind anything, they really do not understand nature at all, & it is not your fault. You are bombarded my misinformation at every turn all with agendas behind it. That is why it is so good to have a long historical perspective. If you have that you can then tell if indeed a spade is a spade. For you to fail to see the delicate interactions of life requires real observation not what you have been told or studied or read out of a book. But few can see these days they are so clouded by everything they have filled you with. Your strong tone suggests that you feel somewhat threaten by this & that is good, it is never comfortable to break ones bubble of illusion, & truth is rather more strange then fiction. Plus the more one knows the less one knows & to want to know needs you to question your premise but please try to be logical. If you know so much then why the fires & why the infestation of the pests?If you are serious of knowing more I am willing to teach you. With real things you can do that are practical & perhaps you can join he others rectifying problems in a real way on this rather abused planet.
  15. splashy's avatar

    splashy Posted 10:27 am
    09 Sep 2009

    So, if people are going to build in the woods, then, since they are starting from scratch, why not build a fireproof home? Reinforced concrete, metal roofs, and other things that are fireproof, would go a long way toward protecting their investment and letting the fire fighters not worry about the home.We build to protect against things like hurricanes, why not fires?
  16. Lezlie's avatar

    Lezlie Posted 10:35 am
    09 Sep 2009

    In reply to the one saying I have no idea of what I am talking about who so far has not left his name!First I have over 40 years of experience & knowledge in this area. First I am a biodynamic ecologist & farmer. Who has studied the various problems in many areas that this planet is facing & to why it is.Albeit my comments earlier were done in a basic way as at times I find no one even understands the very basics to anything these days nor the historical wholeistic perspective let alone ever getting to the real cause of anything for they themselves have no real knowledge just what they have been taught & by whom I might ask.For you to blatantly say & I qoute " the claim that all the pesticides and herbicides have
    killed microbes and now soils aren't accumulating humus and thus carbon is
    insanely idiotic. These chemicals likely have affects on microbes (i.e.,
    fungi and bacteria) but I have seen no study that backs what you claim. All
    one needs to do is look at any thesis on biogeochemistry to see that carbon
    is still being cycled through the forest, but perhapds at altered rates than
    previously found in non-human distrubed forests"You contradict yourself completely, have you ever wondered why the two forests are different? Yes carbon is being recycled through the forest in burning. Now an occassional fire is not a bad thing but what you are experiencing say in California is a call for you to wake up & see the whole picture. Few ever do. As for no real studies well they are there real data from real scientists in this area. I will provide them for you if you are really interested. To believe what another has written in a thesis again does you no favours for who is to say they are correct? Proof is in the pudding & I have made,  one learns one learns more, sometimes you have to start from scratch as the pudding is no good. Sometimes the simplest things the things staring you in the face are what you are missing.I speak from experience & I am also a farmer, I have gone into land that is totally denuded in topsoil & humus both in forest areas & grazing areas holding no moisture with infestations of various pests. With the right practices which I use & the biodynamic preparations which reinstates the right microbial life one can turn the non existant top soil & non existant humus into rich humus soil & thus healthy environments with no over infestation of pests. Every symptom of pests is an indication of an imbalance. All serious imbalances such as these pests & fires today are direct cause to what I wrote in my previous post if you can see the whole picture & not just a symptom. You can never cure a wound by merely treating the symptom, you have to get to the real cause.With pests one has to ask why what is the imbalance & then rectify it. No healthy plant like any healthy human can even carry pests or diseases.What I really find with all this so called "education" is this, most do not question if what they are being taught is in fact the truth, second they have forgotten how to think or have never been shown how to think, third they never really see the hidden principles behind anything, they really do not understand nature at all, & it is not your fault. You are bombarded my misinformation at every turn all with agendas behind it. That is why it is so good to have a long historical perspective. Also one theory or so called truth is then found to be incorrect, to be closed minded with never lead to any real breakthroughs but before a breakthrough you must have the right premise.  If you have that you can then tell if indeed a spade is a spade. For you to fail to see the delicate interactions of life requires real observation not what you have been told or studied or read out of a book. But few can see these days they are so clouded by everything they have filled you with. Your strong tone suggests that you feel somewhat threaten by this & that is good, it is never comfortable to break ones bubble of illusion, & truth is rather more strange then fiction. Plus the more one knows the less one knows & to want to know needs you to question your premise but please try to be logical. If you know so much then why the fires & why the infestation of the pests? CO2's is not the cause it is yet another symtom, & in real reality they are not at the height they say they are it is just a misdirection, to stop you from seeing what is really causing these problems.So all I ask is please question more look at things from many different angles & I hope I can at least provide a prod.If you are serious of knowing more I am willing to teach you. With real things you can do that are practical & perhaps you can join the others rectifying problems in a real way on this rather abused planet. If you want other research & data I can provide it I am old enough now not to shoot from the hip & old enough to always keep an open mind & test new ideas first through thinking as not all ideas are to be tested out of the playground, which is why we have these problems.To end I have a little saying. "Every problem has in it the seeds of its own solution. If you don't have any problems, you don't get any seeds" That is why God gave you seeds.
    1. T Posted 12:59 pm
      09 Sep 2009

      First, it would be nice if you could actually write comprehendable sentences, which is one thing an education can do for you. Then I could actually understand your rants. Second, hundreds of years of farming and the effects on topsoil are not good examples of what is happening in forests, you can't just plainly substitute what you know about farming agricultural lands into what is happening with forests. But I would be interested in these studies that claim all microbes are killed by pesticides and herbicides. I would bet it severely alters the microbial community, but doesn't render it lifeless, much as searing wildfires do not kill all microbes in the top 15 cm of tosoil. You must give nature a bit more credit for it's resilience. As for fire, fire has been a healthy component of many landscapes and environments, and without fire forests and grasslands have become much less "healthy".The earth has evolved with pests and diseases and fire, an actual example of the intricacies of life you mention. I do agree that many things in this world are at an inbalance due to our actions, but we can't be extremist on either side and act like everything is unnatural, and that some things have evolved long before we ever began our meddling, such as those pests and diseases you speak of...The analogy of health and humans is not a great one, or we would have doctors managing our forests. Although I'm sure God will take care of it all...right?Travis

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