Welcome to the new Grist!

Matt P Posted 10:32 am
02 Apr 2009

Wow - the new grist.org lives!

Wrightsfd Posted 10:54 am
02 Apr 2009

Glad you got the new site up. I love change. Unfortunately your new sight is disorganized and the color scheme is fugly. I'll still keep reading it however.

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Easterbunny Posted 11:04 am
02 Apr 2009

What have you done with gristmill? Can we have it back?

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Enci Posted 11:09 am
02 Apr 2009

Yes, please! Get us the old Grist back! This is ugly! The colors, the layout and the header look out of place.Don't ruin the brand you had because you needed to upgrade some features and because you wanted the site to be user friendly. This site makes me want to close the grist tab before anybody sees me on it. :-(

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lanetliorg Posted 12:18 pm
02 Apr 2009

Unfortunately your new sight is disorganized and the color scheme is fugly. I'll still keep reading it howeverhttp://www.lanetli.org

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Pdx Green Posted 1:08 pm
02 Apr 2009

I have to agree with some of the other comments. Ain't diggin' it but I need my Grist fix so I'll keep hangin' whicha.

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kenrosso Posted 1:36 pm
02 Apr 2009

Hello fello Gristers,
My first reaction was, "This new format is bad".Â However, I will say that on occasion, I have objected to changing websites.Â However...My judgement is still, "This new format is bad."Â Why?Â Because the other one was clear, easy to use, and attractive.Â Why mess with a good thing?-Ken

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Emily H Posted 1:56 pm
02 Apr 2009

Have to agree with the above. Love you guys, but this new design is pretty obnoxious — in-your-face and unbelievably cluttered. I've always loved how professional-looking grist is. This looks like just another teenage blogger's project. :(

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Erik Hoffner Posted 3:04 pm
02 Apr 2009

One thing I'll say is that it's a horror on dialup. Now I get to wait a couple minutes just to log in...

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Ken Johnson Posted 3:21 pm
02 Apr 2009

The old interface was simple, streamlined, and succinct. The giant banner fonts and photos just create a lot of clutter.

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vspot Posted 5:37 pm
02 Apr 2009

I have to agree with everyone here - I LOVED the old Grist page, it was a joy to visit, now it just kind of annoys me, like most other web pages. Also it seems to take a long time to load anything, but I realize it's still beta and hopefully that will improve? I used to really enjoy the rotating banner on the front page, which is gone, now, too. Why fix what isn't broken? sad... :o(

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splashy Posted 5:49 pm
02 Apr 2009

I'm reserving judgement myself. It was loading very slowly several days ago, but now it's lightening fast. I was waiting until it loaded quicker to check things out.I imagine the Gristmill could be added back. These kinds of websites are fairly easy to put things into and adjust the look of. Perhaps a few verticle lines to separate the columns would help those that feel like it's cluttered.

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hapa Posted 6:38 pm
02 Apr 2009

i don't quite have the hang of navigating. is there any place RSS-like?

("ignore this commenter" feels a little strong)

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quesofuerte Posted 6:50 pm
02 Apr 2009

same brain, different body. my love is unconditional. sexy grist, so sexy

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davidbro Posted 8:35 pm
02 Apr 2009

Loving the new approach...and looking forward to seeing where it goes. Change is good. Here's to more of it.

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Biodiversivist Posted 9:41 pm
02 Apr 2009

Grist has always assigned obscure labels to things. If you didn't know that Gristmill was the blog you would never find the blog. The blog has a new label called "Voices & Opinion." The Gristmill bloggers are still around even though Gristmill is no more. If so motivated, you will be able to find them by clicking on the link under the Grist Beta logo: http://gristmill.grist.org/voices-opinions/

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hapa Posted 11:43 pm
02 Apr 2009

thx biodiversivivisivist!!!

so i guess i follow the feed. the gristmill blog had so many articles per page i could scan it like RSS and see where the comment activity was. ah well! commenters come, commenters go.

(also: hello web people, the comment box needs to be a little taller, and linefeeds of all stripes need to be honored, and "related articles" photos could be cropped or something so the comments were visible near the end of the article?)

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Morgan Wick Posted 12:24 am
03 Apr 2009

BOOOOO! It loads too slow and you lost the handy table of contents for the old "How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic" guide, and the early entries in that series are now listed with unhelpful titles so this doesn't work either!

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splashy Posted 1:32 am
03 Apr 2009

Hmm, couldn't find where you create a signature that is seen on comments. Looked around in the profile area - no joy. Must be blind or something...

Additional note: I'm liking this new website now that I have looked around. Thanks for updating it. I know how much work can go into creating these things.

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sindark Posted 1:10 pm
07 Apr 2009
I would also be quite happy to get signatures back.
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NobleStore Posted 2:01 am
03 Apr 2009

Congrats. This is great!My blog

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Green Granny Posted 2:23 am
03 Apr 2009

What a change. I look forward to roaming around and exploring this new format. Yes, I loved the old site. This feels a little like moving into a new house -- kind of exciting and bitter sweet. At least the new digs arel in the same neighborhood :).

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filmizle Posted 3:03 am
03 Apr 2009

I enjoyed the color and new design alot. I've already got addicted here. Thanks you working for us. Grist, for me is a place where you can feel free. I think also you should put more youtube videos in the posts.

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Tim Posted 7:11 am
03 Apr 2009

I like the new tools. I 'm not crazy about the new space-hog design, though, with the large images, fonts, and banners...and mugshots? What's an ugly guy like me to do?

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samknox Posted 10:20 am
03 Apr 2009

Sorry, don't like the new design. It's visually very confusing. Bring back old Grist!

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Kif Scheuer Posted 11:45 am
03 Apr 2009

Sorry to be a hater, but it's confusing, cluttered, and full of advertainment. I can't find my way to gristmill. I don't really want to take up precious screen space with pix of the writers (as nice looking as they are). I can't believe the sharp crew that has been running Grist for 10 years, didn't see the backlash on this site coming.

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jwebb Posted 2:01 pm
03 Apr 2009

Ugggh, the only thing i can equate this switch too is when Playboy hired Maxim editor Jim Kaminsky so instead of in-depth reporting and focus on substance you get the "Posts with the Mosts" and "Whack-a-Poll" diluted content for the quick clicking demographic of which i apparenlty have grown out of. I don't care about Umbra on TV, i don't care what writers look like (well hello Kate), and the bag over the head image is down-right repulsive. Seriously- who came up with that? A white guy with cloth/paper over his head and holes cut out- sound good at the board meeting? The colors are horrible and since we have so many ads popping around i guess i don't need to donate any more?? Good luck cleaning up the mess

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Easterbunny Posted 2:35 pm
03 Apr 2009

Okay, thanks to Biodiversivist, I finally found the "voices and opinion" section. Actually I did find it before, but it looked nothing like the gristmill blog, so I decided I was in the wrong place. Now I can just about see how gristmill mutated into this, but it's pretty useless. As a regular visitor to gristmill, I want to see the blog - what's been posted since I last visited. Now I have to go and click on each columnist's picture separately. Can't you at least give me an RSS feed with just the bloggers, without all the news items mixed in, so I can pretend the old gristmill never went away? It's been 3 days now without gristmill, and I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms.

(PS don't care two hoots about the colours and layout - I just want the blog format back.)

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Matt P Posted 2:50 pm
03 Apr 2009

Hey Easterbunny --While staying out of the debate about the design etc etc, I can tell you that author-based feeds are on the way -- possibly as soon as early next week. In fact, little feed icons should be popping up around the site with increasing frequency.Cheers,Matt

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jrs Posted 2:58 pm
03 Apr 2009

Love, love, love it! So glad you made the change…same delicious content and now more appealing to my eyeballs.

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guade00 Posted 6:37 pm
03 Apr 2009

Aint workin, Grist. It's still my homepage, but it doesn't keep my attention the moment I see it. Too much noise. Bring that rotating banner back. I can get great environmental news and discussion in a lot of different places. The old site wasn't needing a facelift.

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Simon Posted 11:26 pm
03 Apr 2009

Hi,Where did the sceptic FAQ go? I kept sending there people so that I don't have to explain everything from the beginning each time. It was incredibly useful.
I'm somewhat in favor of the old blog format - not so much due to design or color scheme, but because a larger chunk of an article was visible on the aggregator page which would tell me enough about its content. I can live with the new format, though.

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sindark Posted 12:22 pm
06 Apr 2009
I think it is critical to put this back in place, with the old permalink structure.I have linked to the skeptic series on literally dozens of other sites.
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splashy Posted 1:01 am
04 Apr 2009

I notice that the margin on the left is very close (like nonexistant) on this page, and others where there are comments. It seems it would be easier to read if there were at least a 10 pixel white space there. It didn't seem to be that way before - perhaps someone changed it.

Liking this more and more!

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Whiskerfish Posted 3:58 am
04 Apr 2009

Right, my last comment did not get published (gremlins in the system, or me saying the redesign sucked?) so, one more time...As a long-time fan of grist (daily visitor to the site) and big-time Net surfer I am hugely disappointed in the redesign. It's insanely cluttered, takes ages to load, and the less said about the colour scheme the better (washed-put, unfriendly version of the apartheid-era South African flag). It's simultaneously overbusy and dead-spacey, which is a pretty amazing feat to achieve. It's lost character; there's nothing (nothing) about the look of the site that says anything environmental or cheerful or edgy or...There's no arguing that things may have needed freshening up, but seriously guys, you've chucked two-and-a-half of the triplets out with the bathwater.My main ciritcism is the fragmentation of the site into artificially-defined topic areas. The great thing about the old grist was being exposed to a whole range of topics from energy to biodiversity to green politics -- quickly and clearly -- via a single channel e.g. gristmill. It's what made the place interesting. Now I have to futz about with different sections and it's not clear if news and opinions re those sections will be found there or if news and opinions are their own sections and it all involves too much clicking and waitng for downloads and more futzing and guessing what I'm missing out on and so on and so on.I know you tried but please, fire your design team, who are clearly more enamoured with widgets and features than efficiency and user-friendliness, and start again.I'm reading a full 80% less of the site than I did before, and no longer feel happy about making a daily turn here. The only reason I still pass by is because of the persistent quality of some of the content. Reading grist has become more of an obligation and less of a pleasure.CheersWhiskerfish

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spaceshaper Posted 6:22 am
04 Apr 2009

Like it. Many thoughtful improvements, especially to the discussion management. Good job, Grist!

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amazingdrx Posted 8:44 am
04 Apr 2009

You're losing me here, 1/2 hr trying to get an avatar.I gave up.On twitter it took 5 min.Yeah, bring back the old site.this one is a disaster to be avoided. Where do I put my twitter ID and blog URL so it can be accessed on my posts?

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SMLowry Posted 10:03 am
04 Apr 2009

I agree with Whiskerfish and the others not pleased with the redesign. I loved Grist for the blogg most, and because I could just scroll down and read snippets of articles by whomever, decide if I wanted to read more, decide whether or not to comment. Every once in a while I'd check out other sections. Now I have to decide who to read, click back and forth. Too much time. Plus updating my profile was a pain and it won't let me update my e-mail (supposedly my current e-mail is already taken by someone. Me? someone else?). Luckily I still receive mail from my old address. I doubt I'll be back here much, not that it matters to anyone, really. Maybe I'm just too old (57) for all the bells and whistles and twitter and all that crap. And I sure don't want to spend any more time than I already do on my computer trying to figure things out. I used to spend too much time on Grist anyway. Now that problem is solved. But I'm sad. Very sad. Like I've lost a friend somehow. Oh well.

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 11:55 am
04 Apr 2009

Hi, I've been reading Grist for years and have found it an invaluable way to survey both NEWS and OPINION on environmental developments. The funny attitude helped and the comments section was above average.I'm not one to complain about a redesign just because its different. I like new ideas. My criticism comes from an open minded look at what you have done here with the new site, and I thinks its truly a loss.

While there may indeed be some improvements, they are overwhelmed by:1.) The hideous and very off-putting design of the site. It almost induces nausea both in color scheme and in layout. Its so harsh I thought it was an April Fool's joke! Its like a razor-blade to the eyes.2.) The ability to come in and do a quick survey of the day's thoughts DIVIDED between NEWS and OPINION/BLOG very clearly is gone. You simply must keep a line between these two, perhaps with a different background color and a line.3.) My God, where is the 'How to talk to a climate skeptic' section. You do know that 2009 is the most important year for providing this information? There are votes coming up! WTF?! That section alone is worth its weight in gold and should even be its own high profile site. This is the WORST timing.4.) The inability of the system to transfer my old account. (not the end of the world, but I couldn't get any help on it either)The over all feeling on the Grist site is now "I'm missing something important that happened today".Sorry guys. Always wishing you the absolute best.

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 12:18 pm
04 Apr 2009

This is now the “Ishtar” of the environmental web resources.

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hapa Posted 2:55 pm
04 Apr 2009

ah starting to see what's going on.ok. writing this from firefox. from firefox (on a mac), i can see all the margins and the fancy comment editing box, which gives an automatic paragraph when i press return. i'm supposed to use the list tools if i want to do line breaks i think but this is somewhat restrictive. also when i press return the box is thrown to the bottom of the window, somewhat disconcerting.using safari 4.0 beta, i can't see the editing box and don't get the automatic paragraphs. (as said before line breaks entered in the tiny, brainless text box i get instead are ignored when the comment is rendered.) (i'm sure there's a way to turn off wysiwyg entry?)using an iphone (latest software), the editing box is visible but when i tap it doesn't enter typing mode, so i can't comment. also the margins are wrong and even over wi-fi the interface is slower than previous. while roaming it would be very hard to read here, especially with how much more clicking-through is involved. (treehugger has the same damn overkill problem. TOO MUCH CLIENT-SIDE. if you don't want to test your user's browser capability, don't dump CPU and bandwidth work on them.) (joking aside: is this something particular to envirogeek thinking? i don't understand why iphones have become "consumerist decadence." isn't browsing from a mobile gizmo that uses a fraction of the power something to be supported and encouraged? isn't "information everywhere" a critical part of a successful green transform?)i like the colors. the layout probably needs tweaking. most of my issue as a reader is that there are some classes of stories -- features and advice, for instance -- that i want to scan as blurbs and other classes -- news and short opinion -- that i want to read right on the page, in a stream. i think if you asked me to draw a line i'd say that any story that made more sense as its own page, i want to encounter as a promo. otherwise, inverted pyramid stuff, i want that right in front of me, to scroll through, with "continued on" where it made sense.best of all worlds is the something like the "spotlight issues" interface at rgemonitor. articles are read in place, loaded in place when you click to show interest. as is right now when i click a story from any area on grist it takes me to a completely isolated page with no breadcrumbs or navigation through the list i was looking at before. take this as a compliment. i started reading grist because of your editorial quality. but. when you throw me into a dead end street where i get tag-related articles instead of a re-entry point to the stream i sort of thought i was reading, suddenly i'm lost in the machine, right.ok!

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Tasermons Partner Posted 6:11 pm
04 Apr 2009

First, I love the new comments box features, such as the different fonts and list types.Second, I like the option of previewing our comments before posting...however, I really wish it wasn't mandatory to preview before posting. There should be a Preview option and a Post Now option.Also, it would be nice to have the Preview option when you Edit text as well. Currently, you can only Post Comment when you click the Edit button, there is no Preview.I also like the new reply option, and that replys are kept next to the original comment, as opposed to poppin' up halfway down the page.Third, I have no problem with the new site colors, but I do have some problems with layout. I'm not opposed to each article havin' photo shots, but they do seem to take up alot of space currently and they don't seem very organized.It also takes much longer to scroll down both the main page, and each page in the article.I also don't like that the advertisements take up so much room between the article and the comments below. For a minute, I almost thought there were no comments, until I went further. I could be wrong, but my recollection was that the advertisements weren't as obtrusive on the old site (which is probably good for the advertisers whom Grist relies on, but still annoys me alittle).MOST IMPORTANTFourth, and this one is actually kinda the one that irks me the most...the avatars and related user options are on the RIGHT side of the screen and the comments/text on the LEFT side of the screen!...Ya might wonder why this is so important. Well, when the text backs right up to the LEFT side of the screen, it becomes harder to read, 'specially when it's not in paragraph form and has no indentations. It appears as a solid block of text. And since there's no space between the text and the edge of screen, it becomes uncomfortable, since most people are accustomed to viewing things that are closer to center of the screen.In other words, there are no margins on the LEFT side of the screen. MARGINS ARE GOOD, PLEASE ADD THEM!! It's just as uncomfortable to read text on a screen with no margins, as it is to read text on a sheet of paper that starts straight at the edge and has no margins. It just doesn't look right.And by placing the avatars and assorted user info on the LEFT side of the comments/text, it acts an indentation and breaks up the blocks of text. It also makes it easier/more comfortable to identify the user, since the natural prefernce of people (in Western countries) is to read from left to right.I know that it seems like a minor thing, but you'll notice that almost every other website with comments sections and avatars puts their avatars to the LEFT of the text and provides some type of margin/box to seperate the text from the edge of the screen.I noticed that on the main page, you have the pics on LEFT side of the screen and the the article summaries to the RIGHT of them. It's the same concept. It just looks better to have visual aids/pics (such as avatars) on the LEFT side of the text.Since it's kinda the (unofficial) web/internet standard, and since it's so much easier on the eyes, I, personally, would really appreciate this (relatively) minor change, which I think would make a huge difference and make the website much easier on the eyes.Please??

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sunflower Posted 7:28 pm
04 Apr 2009

I will miss reading random blog responses from the likes of randino, caniscadia, green granny, david roberts, biodiversivist, and so on.

Investigative reporting and professional opinions that I can forward to decision makers are far more important than the styles of copy editors.

Mass extinctions from carbon emissions dominate my comfort zones. Grist colors not so much.

(How do I make paragraph breaks?)

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trix Posted 5:30 am
05 Apr 2009

I'm usually good about website change, but I'm afraid this one isn't for the better. Firstly, while whitespace is all good and dandy, there really is no need to have as much padding around each element as there is the content of the element. For example, the "Sections", "Voices" etc headings below have as much blue space around them as the full height of the letters. In fact, more. While some people might enjoy scrolling for hours, it gets a bit tedious on a 1024x768 screen.The search works, which is good, because the only way to find the Skeptics topic is to search for it. Unfortunately, when you get there, it's not great, because the Series Intro has no text (although a NICE BIG PICTURE of NOTHING - still, I'm glad that the majority of your header pics are not oversized, like they can be on other sites *cough*Huffpost*cough*), and the topic links at the side are pulling the wrong data - so instead of the first one saying "There is no evidence", the topic link shows as "yes there is". There are lots of "Yes" and "No" topics, it seems. This is because the "There is no evidence" part is tagged as a "subhead" while the answer is tagged as a "headline". This should probably be swapped around anyway, because the subhead is barely discernable as being the actual topic.Also the (Part of the How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic guide) link doesn't work.While I don't mind comment avatars being to the right of the screen, I tend to agree that minimal whitespace (ok, one place where it's useful) on the left does not lend to readability. Perhaps add a slightly larger left margin, make the text column wider, and shrink the right column a bit (because I don't see why it needs to be that wide).So, sorry to say, I'd give it a C all round.

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yoder Posted 7:11 am
05 Apr 2009

I did not like the old site, and rarely visited. The new site is much better and easier to navigate.

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racje Posted 8:35 am
05 Apr 2009

I don't like the new site.Searches don't work--I tried one and just got broken links and comments but not articles.Also, I don't like the colors, can't find anything. It doesn't look like grist!

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Tim Hurst Posted 9:28 am
05 Apr 2009

I guess I'm not seeing the insanely cluttered, hideous and hard to navigate site redesign as some of the others. I think it looks and feels great.Congratulations to everyone at grist for being our beacon in the smog for the last 10 years.

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 9:35 am
05 Apr 2009

OK, obviously you guys have a huge job moving a site like this and I understand the pains. It can't be easy.But this is the season of both the U.S. national vote and the Copenhagen international agreement. To not have a resource like "How to talk to a climate skeptic" up front and center and properly laid out, is a tragic case of bad timing to say the least. I bet policy people probably use it as well. I can't think of a worse time for there to be problems with it. It needs not only to be fixed, but made into a permanent banner link on the grist site (above 'the fold'), mirrored as a stand-alone site, and promoted.PS: On Safari, I have to make paragraph breaks a second time in order for them to show up here.

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sunflower Posted 10:09 am
05 Apr 2009

paragraph

breaks require < p > < p > without the spaces on Firefox with Java and JavaScript disabled.

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Grant Ed Posted 10:16 am
05 Apr 2009

Good for you Grist! Change: some people like it some people hate it, but only time will tell if it's Bob Dylan going elecric or Ethel Merman doing disco.
Myself, I think the colors are improved, but then again I like bright shiny things. Pastels make me vaguely queasy. The layout has an old-timer like me confused (where's my account page?), but new users may find it easy compared to the old spaghetti bowl. Hopefully the beta versioning will help Grist work out the bugs.

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lilypad Posted 11:46 am
05 Apr 2009

One of my favorite features of the old site was the "recent comments" section that appeared on the blog. It was very easy to check back for updates to older posts for continuing discussion. (BTW, dicussion is 99% of what I come here for. Those who comment on a regular basis are the real stars of this site in my opinion.)Also, why get rid of time/date on posts? Numbers of days/hours ago is better how?I will continue to look around, but I can't help that I am missing out - even with rss enabled.

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Erik Hoffner Posted 12:19 pm
05 Apr 2009

I agree on the 'recent comments' section of the old site. Prefer that to the 'quick go check my email to see if anyone has commented on the post I'm following' b/c it's all visible at once who's talking about what when you have a comments section right on the main page of the gristmill.Reviving that in the space that seems to be reserved at this point for pointless polls would be my vote.Erik

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yoder Posted 3:47 pm
05 Apr 2009

I don't use sites like Grist to find out what any one person has to say, so the page real estate set aside for any one person is not used and is only in the way. If I can't easily find information by topic, then I'm gone. The new site is much more usable for me

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amazingdrx Posted 7:19 pm
05 Apr 2009

It matters not one wit what we object to,we are on "ignore". Hehey.

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hapa Posted 8:29 pm
05 Apr 2009
"beta" stands for "busy enthusiastically trying again"
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mihan Posted 7:55 am
06 Apr 2009

Yeah, it's hard to navigate. But we fear change. Personally, I always want things to do less, but let's recall that we all said, "We want [new feature] on Grist." Now they've added that stuff and you're all griping? Me? All I want is a compulsory grammar- and spell-check function. I know that nobody else cares that there is a difference between a noun (e.g., "every day") and an adjective (e.g., "everyday"), but I do, dammit.

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kmp Posted 10:36 am
06 Apr 2009

Hmm. Not a fan, sorry. To me, Grist has pretty much been synonymous with "Gristmill" and Voices & Opinions just doesn't seem to cut it, no? I miss being able to scan today's enviro news in about 1 minute, and then decide if something is compelling enough to draw me in.

I have to say that the words that resonate are "Ishtar" and "fugly." Sigh. First Facebook, now Grist.. whatever happened to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?"

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Biodiversivist Posted 10:37 am
06 Apr 2009

This isn't the beta site. I think that the word "beta" under the logo is left over from the actual beta test URL. This site is the real deal, bug fixing will progress but could be tricky since the site is now live.

I also just realized that this switch has destroyed tens of thousands, possibly millions, of Google search links. I was accustomed to typing in an author name and a few hints to zero in on past Grist articles but no more. The library of Alexandria analogy may not be so far off...

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Jon Rynn Posted 4:36 pm
06 Apr 2009
biod, to continue our discussion of those links, it seems that sometimes when you access the old link, the new link comes up. but sometimes it doesn't.The other weird thing is that, for instance, all my posts seem to be somewhere in grist space, but most are not listed under my page -- but yours seem to be OK. maybe this will all be resolved eventually.
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Jon Rynn Posted 4:39 pm
06 Apr 2009
and another weird thing I just discovered is that these replies -- which I think I like -- don't increase the counter of comments at the top
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1. Biodiversivist Posted 6:09 pm
  06 Apr 2009
  Oh yeah. The bugs are too numerous to count right now. I'm typing in a window that is about 3/8 of an inch high. Given time the bugs will be worked out. Guest posts appear to have been moved to the lowest priority as there is only so much manpower to be spread around and many fires to be put out. The voices and opinion section appears to be more or less a place holder for now with no content showing up in it. The Beta version had a pretty short lifespan, not nearly long enough to flush all problems out.
  
  I don't get avators. I may be vain but not vain enough to think people actually want to see my face. As graphics, they also eat a lot of memory, making the site slower to load and refresh. A tradeoff I suppose to make the site look like other popular sites. Leaving a bag insinuates you are either ugly as hell, or not a team player, or both in my case ; )
  
  The tiny window is now overwritten by yoder's last post and I can't see what I'm typing. I'm gonna just hit post and five it up. The site really isn't functional yet.
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2. Jon Rynn Posted 7:35 pm
  06 Apr 2009
  biod, I tried replying to your very helpful comment below, but theres no reply; not only that, now I can,t do an apostrophe. anyway, thanks for the info about guest bloggers not getting posted yet, I think I jumped the gun a few days back, but I will be patient (oh, the prima donna in me wants to wail...) ...whoa! an edit! yah mon! and actually it placed the reply nicely...ok, chaos can be fun
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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 11:03 am
06 Apr 2009

Somebody above mentioned an ability to follow a dialog by subscribing to it. I cannot find this functionality. Where is it? I think I missed something.There are even six year old forums that I know of that will send a little email when the discussion has been updated. That would be helpful here.

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sindark Posted 12:19 pm
06 Apr 2009

I agree that the new format is ugly and confusing, though I am sure I will get used to it.Is there any way to opt out of the 'rich text' editor? I hate the things.

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sindark Posted 12:29 pm
06 Apr 2009
Also, there should be a way to choose how the avatar images are cropped. It is very unnatural to have a portrait that is so much more horizontal than vertical, so those without Photoshop are likely to end up with strange looking avatars.
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1. yoder Posted 2:20 pm
  06 Apr 2009
  Yup, square avatars are a must.
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stevec Posted 2:08 am
07 Apr 2009

How come so many people look like me?

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phillipadsmith Posted 7:28 am
07 Apr 2009

For what it's worth, I think the new site looks refreshingly great. The old Grist.org was lovely, no doubt, but I'm happy to see some change; change is good, after all. :-)

Congrats to the entire Grist team for pulling this off. There's no doubt in my mind that is was a project of enormous proportions. Well done. Bravo!

The only thing that's missing is the "Donate Now" button.

Phillip.

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Matt P Posted 12:54 pm
07 Apr 2009
Hey phillipadmisth,Thanks for your comment -- we are working on the "donate" button -- like most other things about the new site, it was rebuilt from the ground up. It's now in testing.Everyone -- please keep your great comments coming -- we are paying attention.
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1. Jon Rynn Posted 1:14 pm
  07 Apr 2009
  OK dude -- Matt -- so I dont bother Russ -- two things:
  1) It would be great if the "more" link at the end of the main stories on the left on the homepage actually led to more stories, indefinitely, instead of to tags. Its frustrating not being to go back2) If you could make the font bigger, or even just put up a all text list, of contributors in the "voices and opinions" page, for the "I-Q" and "R-Z" links (or can I just change my posting name to "aaaJon Rynn"?)thank
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2. Matt P Posted 1:38 pm
  07 Apr 2009
  Thanks Jon --We'd be happy to look at those items too. Changes might take a while, but we are tracking them. If you'd like to put a suggestion/bug directly into our bug queue, please click on "report bug" in the top orange nav bar.
  Matt
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hapa Posted 7:07 pm
07 Apr 2009

posting from iphone. small plaintext entry box. (after pushing "preview" you get the richtext editing box which still doesn't allow entry.) linefeed:
2 linefeeds:

3 linefeeds:

ok.

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sunflower Posted 10:26 pm
07 Apr 2009

Agree with Jon. I wanted to read yesterday's rags and all I get are tags. What's up with that?

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Smoked_Galaxy Posted 5:53 am
08 Apr 2009

I counted on the old site, particularly the Gristmill, to provide a 10-15 minute scan of today's news, opinions, ideas in a single view. I liked that having everything in a single view forced me to read stuff that I might otherwise ignore because it was inconvenient to think about. Now I must click on "voices and opinions," then further click on article titles, only to realize that I read that article several days ago. Is there a way to view postings according to time posted, rather than author? Am I missing something?Regardless, thanks for the upgrade and intentioned effort.

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Easterbunny Posted 7:10 am
08 Apr 2009
Yes - Smoked_galaxy (great handle, by the way) said exactly what I was trying to say earlier in the thread. I've tried the "voices and opinions" section a couple of times in the past week, and it's hopeless for that daily fix of commentary.Still missing Gristmill. Coping better now with the withdrawal symptoms. Have discovered DeSmogBlog, and it works like methadone.
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Michael Posted 9:19 am
08 Apr 2009

Have to agree with most other commenters: significantly less attractive, much more generic (this could be a personal finance blog -- the old site had a 'green', 'earthy' look, and while that may be a bit too pigeon-holing, this is definitely not an improvement), no easier to navigate, and indeed, lacking the 'what's new or hot' effect of the old front page scan.Also, is your podcast being revamped and returned with the relaunch of the site?

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Michael Posted 9:19 am
08 Apr 2009

Have to agree with most other commenters: significantly less attractive, much more generic (this could be a personal finance blog -- the old site had a 'green', 'earthy' look, and while that may be a bit too pigeon-holing, this is definitely not an improvement), no easier to navigate, and indeed, lacking the 'what's new or hot' effect of the old front page scan.Also, is your podcast being revamped and returned with the relaunch of the site?

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SMLowry Posted 11:59 am
08 Apr 2009

I keep on coming back, hoping things have improved or I've perhaps gotten used to them, but no such luck. I miss gristmill and being able to scroll though various articles and comments. And unless I'm missing it no such thing exists on this site. It's just like so many other bloggs now, which I check out on occasion, but never regularly and usually don't bother to comment because I won't be back to see if anyone responded or if I added something others felt important to the discussion. Even though I never met the writers or posters (to my knowledge anyway - who knows - in my travels in my "past life" as an activist/conference speaker/presenter maybe I did) gristmill felt like a community of sorts. Now the pieces have been broken up and repositioned in ways that, for me, destroyed that feeling. I'm curious if the "powers that be" at Grist will take the criticisms of so many of us that are basically saying similar things to heart and try and revamp some aspects of the site to give us what we want or if the thing was to bring in new, perhaps younger, folks.

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kmp Posted 2:16 pm
08 Apr 2009

To Christopher S. Johnson: You can subscribe (or opt out of, which I searched for!) an email every time there is a comment on a thread to which you have commented. If you go to your profile, click on Edit Profile, then Email Settings, make sure "enable email notifications by default...." is checked. You can also go to Communication Preferences and see if you are currently 'subscribed' to anything (although I can't find how *to* subscribe if you want to).As for the avatars: You can turn them off in your profile as well. Go to Edit Profile, Edit Preferences, and uncheck "display member avatars."I agree with SMLowry - I'm in denial. Hoping against hope that someone out there is listening and that some (workable) form of Gristmill resurfaces. Even categorizing by date/time would be a huge improvement over categorizing by author, and a "recent comments" box is really a must. Sometimes, when you only have a couple of minutes, you like to click on whatever story everyone is up in arms about. (And Holy Mother of Whatever, this one-line comment box is a PITA).

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 3:06 pm
08 Apr 2009
Thanks for the lead.
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DC Posted 2:35 pm
08 Apr 2009

Not aesthetically attractive and cluttered in my opinion, butÂ I do like the tabsÂ to topics.Â Color is subjective!As for the video: Whoa! should come with a warning, especially for those of us who have lostÂ a loved oneÂ to suicide... A little too close to home!

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 3:09 pm
08 Apr 2009
Color may be ultimately subjective, but what does one call a whole hell of a lot of agreeing subjectives?
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1. spaceshaper Posted 5:04 pm
  08 Apr 2009
  A vocal minority?
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2. Christopher S. Johnson Posted 5:37 pm
  08 Apr 2009
  HA! LOL!No. "Taste."
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David Roberts Posted 3:39 pm
08 Apr 2009

All, I think Management has a reply in the works to all the feedback. Just one note: I don't know who got the idea that the Voices & Opinions page is a reincarnated Gristmill. It is not. In fact, it is a page meant to highlight the Voices & Opinions available on the site.The old distinction between what was published on Grist and what was published on Gristmill was fairly arbitrary, driven more by backend considerations than any sensible distinction in content. So now it's all just Grist. If you want a single page on which you can see Everything on Grist, in chronological order, well, I do too -- hopefully that won't be long in coming.Most of what used to be on Gristmill can be found (yes, in chronological order!) on our Climate & Energy page:http://www.grist.org/kingdom/climate-energyMuch more later.

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 4:24 pm
08 Apr 2009
Hi, thanks for the link David.

Be honest with me: am I "old and from a different generation" because I'm 40 years old and like a physical division line between news stories and opinion? While we can have a fun philosophical debate about whether there is really such a thing as "true objectivity", I have found strong intellectual value in separating the two and how I read. It helps to sort information in our heads, I think.The 24hr news channels blur these lines too, whether its Lou Dobbs on CNN, or Maddow on MSNBC. Is this healthy? Even if I usually agree with the editorials here at Grist?

When I go to Joe Romm's site I KNOW I'm getting his opinion, but Grist had both: links to the hard news stories for background facts, and then your informed commentary in "Gristmill". That is what "Gristmill" meant to us: "now entering an opinion zone." It wasn't arbitrary at all.Am I old fashioned? Are the dying newspapers also a part of this failing idea? Is separating hard news a passe 20th century thing?

Or does Grist want to officially say, "hey, go check out BBC and New York Times for your enviro-hard-news fix, THEN come back to read our opinions and commentary on the new Grist." If so, that's fine, but say it, please.

Thanks.
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1. David Roberts Posted 9:10 pm
  08 Apr 2009
  Chris, that may have been your subjective experience of Gristmill, but that just goes to show the (ahem) fickle nature of subjectivity. In fact, we published plenty of "hard news" in Gristmill. Kate's reporting from D.C. was published there. We ran stories from AFP there. The distinction between Grist and Gristmill may have seemed to you a line between news and opinion, but that was not in fact the case.If you want straight, uncut news, you can find it here:http://www.grist.org/newsEverywhere else, it's a mix of this, that, and the other.(And -- I can't resist! -- if you think the "hard news" at BBC and NYT isn't ridden with judgments, assumptions, and contestable perspectives from top to bottom, you haven't been reading your Jay Rosen.)
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Tasermons Partner Posted 3:45 pm
08 Apr 2009

I appreciate the new "hand-on-keyboard" avatar as opposed to the "bag-over-head" avatars (I know it was a good joke, but the pic itself just didn't look good, sorry...but thanks for puuting an "avatar optional" function in the profile page).I hope that you're also possibly considering moving the avatars to the left...or at least putting in a left margin! That text is hard to read in block form up against the screen edge.

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David Roberts Posted 10:56 pm
08 Apr 2009
Hey TP, the fact that there's no padding on the left margin is a bug that will get fixed. Apparently it's only true in some browsers, not others. It's on our list! Your patience and forebearance are mightily appreciated. Keep the feedback coming.
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hapa Posted 4:41 pm
08 Apr 2009

"If you want a single page on which you can see Everything on Grist, in chronological order, well, I do too -- hopefully that won't be long in coming."
t'riffic. maybe as big features like this are added there can be a broadcast email to registered users?

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Stephanie Ogburn Posted 9:17 pm
08 Apr 2009

When I'm trying to read the New Grist in my RSS reader, NetNewsWire, the e-mail and Digg, Delicious, etc. sharing icons take up a HUGE amount of space above the story. This is also happening in Firefox 3.0.8 on a Mac OX 10.5.6 when the page is loading -- after it loads the icons shrink up, but sometimes that takes a while. I have an AT&T wireless modem/router and it's not superfast wireless, but pages still take quite a while to load. I don't want to imagine what it would be like on dialup...

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wendyg Posted 7:12 am
09 Apr 2009

I repeat what has been said here--I don't just dislike the new format--I hate it. It's harder to read and harder to quickly find material. BUT at the same time I realize there is little chance you will go backwards (god, I hope I'm wrong), so here's some constructive criticisim. I absolutely need the 'previous 20' 'next 20' feature. I don't want to search by tags. I want to see what I've missed in the last 2-3 days period that is current news that has long rolled off your homepage. Typically only part of a day remains on your homepage. This is even more essential now that I come here less often due to the new look. PLEASE bring this back.You've got to know this, but your main strength is your posts--not the pictures. They are window dressing, but the new grist seems to be more window dressing with the content competely lost in glitz. Wrong direction.

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 10:43 am
09 Apr 2009

Thanks David for your reply. I didn't see another reply button so I'll just post here.

Thank you for the clarification on how news and blog posts were really blended all along on the old Grist. I didn't realize you had editorials in the old top news section. Of course I acknowledged that we could indeed find subjective infections in "hard news" stories because, after all, we are just human. This is a classic college and high school critical thinking classroom discussion. I've kind of been there and done that -- a long time ago. And that is why I have found YOUR posts valuable, David: because you comment and critique the information provided in the news pretty damn well.

So what happens in the discussion after that? A doubling of effort to separate the two, vigilance, a search for a more objective report of an event, or a "giving in" fatalism that has an almost nihilistic world view that says, "screw it," we know our point of view needs to be realized (and I agree with you on that) so lets just have a site that helps make that happen and publish whatever things facilitate that.

I could dig a site a like that on its own terms and you have now made it clear that is the case. But at the same time, I will spend just a little more time on BBC and NYTimes science sections, and the deeper link you provided me, before coming to Grist proper, which I value. A nice one-two punch for the informed head -- even in its imperfection.

Always a supporter,

-Christopher

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David Roberts Posted 2:19 pm
09 Apr 2009
Chris, it's perfectly possible to accurate and responsible without trying to pretend you are writing from a God's eye point of view. There is no "separating them," because there is no such thing as news free of any framing perspective. What readers would benefit from, seems to me, is if reporters and journalists were open and honest about their perspectives, their biases, their empirical limitations, etc. Then readers could incorporate that into the way they absorb information. As it is now, the pretense of "objectivity" just means that the perspectives and choices are buried, unspoken, unacknowledged, and readers have to be fairly sophisticated to suss them out. It makes it harder, not easier, to learn from what you read. Subjectivity and accuracy are not at odds. There is no accuracy except subjective accuracy. Responsibility, fealty to shared standards of evidence, a self-critical eye, openness to criticism and willingness to correct, etc., are all separable from the somewhat idiosyncratic 20th century American journalism pretense of perfect objectivity.All of which is basically orthogonal to the fact that Grist did not used to separate news and opinion cleanly, and now it does!http://www.grist.org/newsThe news page contains only news. The rest of the site contains a mix.And thanks for your support! I feel fairly confident the site will evolve in ways that address most people's concerns. Our backend makes changes a lot easier now. (Except the colors, of course. The colors are hard coded.)
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1. Christopher S. Johnson Posted 4:58 pm
  09 Apr 2009
  David, I think everything you said has truth in it. And for me, that post-modern relativistic stance can be a very powerful warning and footnote on the way to the truth. But it's just an important warning and footnote about pitfalls of arrogance in perception, not "the main thing."You are describing the role of the blogger, and that is an important role. I'll be here to read you for that. (I even write my own amateur goofy blog that is highly liberal and affected.) And at the same time I am thankful our culture still has a place for those who do indeed TRY, even imperfectly, to write an objective news story, or science paper, or feature story. The effort has a role to play. It doesn't matter that its not 100% successful. Its about the effort. The New York Times and BBC matter, even in their imperfection.I'm glad you have that tiny link at the top of the page for news stories. Thanks. I'd rather do it here than a search on Google News. But I miss that "above the line and to the right of the big box news feed" look from the old Grist existing on the same page.I'm reminded of the quote by philosopher Ken Wilber about making post-modernism your master instead of using it as a helpful tool, "That everything is relative doesn't mean nothing is better! It means SOME things are relatively better than OTHERS, all of the time."
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beetle Posted 12:22 pm
09 Apr 2009

I am really, really bummed. I have been reading Grist for years and loved its originality and clean, easy to read look. This is the most generic website design ever - no fun fonts, awful colors, there are far better designs on Wordpress for free! It's also unbelievably cluttered - I don't know what's what, what's news and what's an advertisement, what to click on to find anything interesting to read. It all seemed so easy before. This is not easy, and not fun. Thumbs way down. I hope to keep reading your site but am not sure I can tolerate the looks and the disorientation.

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turanga leela Posted 2:14 pm
09 Apr 2009

oh, grist, grist, grist...my dear lovely grist, you've gone and ruined your beautiful face with cosmetic surgery. what the ILVTOFU where you thinking??you were once unique and special, truly a gem in the online community, unlike all other websites and blogs. now, in the interest of making us, your individual members, feel unique and special by allowing us to add photos of ourselves, you've gone and made yourself look like a wordpress blog. you're like jennifer grey after the nose job.not only that, these colors...oh, what will we do with these colors? they look like a college football team color scheme. specifically i am reminded of the university of nebraska. did you have some sort of bogus "rebranding" consultation with out of work designers looking for a few quick bucks? how many nonprofits will fall prey to these "creative industry" scam artists? what exactly was wrong with all the muted greens and blues you had before? not "zingy" enough for the millenials?all i can say is...well, thank goodness you've earned the love and respect of so many who will continue to remain devoted and put up with your antics, midlife crisis or no.

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Pangolin Posted 4:05 am
10 Apr 2009

I would like to point out that the former readers of Gristmill were, um, readers. I don't need to see David and Kate's faces to form opinions on their ideas because I'm a grownup now and this isn't Facebook. If I wanted faces I'd be there and if I wanted one liners I would join with the Twits.

The Voices and Opinions page is flat useless to me. I can't see slogging through that.

The new site is slow as hell on dialup. Firefox seems to hate it something fierce also. Opening multiple tabs makes javascript cough a hairball.

Can anyone point me to the URL rules for comments? Are there any? Standard html doesn't work.

Without the recent comments section whack-a-denier is no longer a fun game.

Seriously with the faces; I don't need to see somebody's teeth to read their policy on carbon capture.

What everybody else said goes for me too. Re-blogify it.

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spaceshaper Posted 8:49 am
10 Apr 2009

Whack-a-denier was never a fun game. I'm glad the new format discourages it. The most irritating single aspect of the old Grist site was stupid ad hominem exchanges dominating the recent comments sidebar. Goodbye and good riddance. Â And in response to some other comments here: I don't have a problem with the text size, I can always press 'command +"Â to make it bigger if I want (surely this isn't just a Mac thing?) and in Safari I can drag the comment box as big as I need it to be. I like the pictures, I think it reinforces the sense of community that was always Grist's strong suit. Â And by the way, I'm pushing sixty, so I don't think you can call it an age thang. I don't think the new format is perfect yet but I'm seeing major improvements in functionality and performance underpinning the new layout. Keep up the good work.

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katief Posted 9:17 am
10 Apr 2009

I'm not going to weigh in on the redesign, but...but...where are the punny article titles? That was my favorite part of the whole thing!

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SMLowry Posted 1:16 pm
10 Apr 2009

So it's not just my computer! I'm on a Mac and use Firefox, too, and everytime I get some wierd box talking about script and do i want to continue downloading and then I get that rainbow ball going round and round and I cross my fingers hoping firefox hasn't frozen and I'll have to force quit and start all over again. Now I have two accounts, one I can't access because a password e-mail was never received even though I have contacted the "bug department" several times, and I can't update to my newer e-mail address because of this. And even typing this is difficult because it seems the keys I hit aren't coordinated with what's coming up on the page, something I don't notice on any other site. Another site I visit fairly often also did a redesign and it's full of bugs, even worse than this one if you can believe that. It's so bad I can't even open it from a bookmark but have to google search it and open from there. Obviously that's not going to happen.As far as news and opinions goes, to me that's not an issue. I can pretty much tell what's news and what's opinions and personally I like them mixed - opinions and news in the same piece, which was what I liked about gristmill. I'd check on the news occasionally to see what Grist though newsworthy, but it was the opinions that I liked most because I like to think, I like to be challenged and I like to be opened to new perspectives. One of the things that always irked me about publishers of magazines and newsletters (back in the day when such things existed, before there was an internet and writers actually got paid for what they wrote) is their insistance on objectivity and balance which to me meant I had to give both sides equal credence even when one was actually (and factually not just in my opinion) wrong. Of course after enough time goes by the truth will come out. Remember when climate change wasn't accepted as fact, just some left/radical plot against the status quo? Or when clearcutting old growth was the thing to do and anyone who disagreed was a tree hugger, which was always supposed to be a derogatory thing to call someone? Anyway, I digress. Hopefully one day I'll check this site and find my old friend back. And if there are any typos or whatever in this, don't blame me, blame whatever wierd connection is happening between my keyboard and this comment box.

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sunflower Posted 2:28 pm
10 Apr 2009

What a nest, so many bugs, and they are breeding. It is scary. Perhaps but the lid on this and use the old site for now.

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 10:03 pm
10 Apr 2009

Hey I found where Grist got their color scheme from!The AT&T corporate site .Look! Bwahahahahahahaha. The whole site uses it. :-D http://www.att.com/gen/landing-pages?pid=9214

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Christopher S. Johnson Posted 10:10 pm
10 Apr 2009

Found where the new color scheme came from!http://www.att.com/gen/landing-pages?pid=9214

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Tasermons Partner Posted 4:55 pm
20 Apr 2009

Um, I have a few more suggestions/problems to report, I'm afraid.First, when you click to read all the comments a member has made, "View All", it loads ALL of the comments that person has ever made on the same page.If a member has made several hundred, or even several thousand, comments, then it takes an extraordinarily long time for the comments to come up. Could Grist possibly divide them up into pages of like 10 or 20 comments per page instead? And then just have the pages in chronological order?Also, when all of a member's comments are listed on the same page, and you click on the link to read the other responses made on a thread the member has commented on, it doesn't link you to the comments. It just takes you back to the top of the "View All" comments page. You haveta click on the link to the thread to read the responses instead (so there really is no need for a link to view the other responses of the same thread).And for some reason, on the main Grist web page, there's a huge block of white, blank space between the bottom article and the bottom tool/link bar. Might wanna get rid of it.And also, a suggestion:There's often two advertisements between the text of an article and the comments below (often it's just the same advertisement twice over). Instead of putting them one on top of the other (vertically oriented), could Grist possibly consider putting them side by side instead (horizontally oriented), so we don't haveta scroll down as far to get to the comments?Thanks for listening!

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sindark Posted 8:51 am
23 Apr 2009

One small suggestion:You should get a favicon. It makes it easier to identify which tabs are which, when someone has many of them open in a browser. The same goes for quickly identifying bookmarks in some situations.

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Welcome to the new Grist! 106

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by Chip Giller

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Posted 8:00 AM on 27 Mar 2009
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