On whether to eco-retrofit an old car

28 Apr 2005

Got questions about the environment? Ask Umbra.

My husband is an environmentalist. He wants one of the new alternative-fuel cars, but I have a dream to surprise him for his birthday with a 1970 muscle car (a Malibu or something like that) from his youth, which I would retrofit with a biodiesel or natural-gas engine. My questions are:

1. Should I put in a biodiesel engine or a natural-gas engine?

2. Who can do this for me in California (preferably the Bay Area)?

3. How much should I expect to pay to have this done?

Lucy
Belvedere, Calif.

Ask Umbra continues below

ADVERTISING POLICY

Dearest Lucy,

I'm glad you wrote before rushing out to buy that Malibu coupe. Your idea is great, but the execution will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, and may end up disappointing your environmental hubby to boot. So let's put the project in park for a moment to ponder it.

Greening up a muscle car isn't easy.

Newer alternative-fuel cars have multiple attractions. One: showing marketplace support for fuel innovation. Another: reduced carbon-dioxide emissions. A third: high miles per gallon for whatever fuel is in the tank, which translates into needing to fuel up less frequently (although apparently this is not the case with compressed-natural-gas [CNG] vehicles). Still another attraction, which may or may not matter to your husband, is owning a newer car that runs nicely, has nifty amenities like a CD player, and projects a bourgeois eco-image.

In your plan, only the marketplace support for fuel innovation and the reduced carbon emissions would be achieved -- and that through the purchase of fuel, not of the vehicle. So think about why your man wants an alt-fuel car, because if you go to the massive trouble of converting an old car and it doesn't suit his fantasy, you'll both be very sad. An old car will get lower mileage, will have wear inside and out, and may not have delay windshield wipers and all that good stuff. On top of that, because it's been around the block quite a few times, it is likely to require more repairs, or at least require them sooner. (With new cars, we can maintain the fantasy that they will not need repairing at least for a little while.)

If you do decide to convert the old car, go talk to a good, friendly mechanic. Engines aren't one-size-fits-all. The physical dimensions of an engine and its power need to work with the rest of the car. Even if those two factors match, installing an engine for which the car was not designed will probably be incredibly expensive. A friend of mine wanted to switch her VW Westfalia over to a diesel engine, and she was told it would cost upwards of $6,000 -- and probably much more. Modern CNG vehicles have specific safety standards to protect against fires and methane release. I'm not sure a '70s car would qualify -- and in any case, the higher cost of CNG autos is attributed to $6,000 fuel cylinders. Your idea, in short, while possibly priceless, is not cheap.

My advice in this instance, and that's what I'm paid for, would be to look into diesel cars from the '70s, which you can run on biodiesel. You're on the West Coast so many such cars will be in decent shape -- not to mention far cheaper than car + engine. It'll be less of an investment, and you'll still be able to send a hipster message on your ice-cream outings. And, hey, if he wants to, hubby can still get a newer car for his main wheels.

Vroom,
Umbra

Yours is to wonder why, hers is to answer (or try). Please send Umbra any nagging question pertaining to the environment -- but first check out her FAQs!

The claims made in this column may not reflect the views of this magazine. Neither the magazine nor the author guarantees that any advice contained in this column is wise or safe. Please use this column at your own risk.

Umbra Fisk is Grist Research Associate II, Hardcover and Periodicals Unit, floors 2B-4B.

Comments: (12 comments)

You are not logged in. Thus, you cannot post a comment. If you have a Gristmill account, log in below. If you don't have a Gristmill account, well, by all means go make one! Meet you back here in five.

Not so fast, Umbra...

There are other options to consider here. Lucy could convert a classic muscle car to run on propane fairly easily. Few mods to the original engine are required, and it will run much cleaner than gasoline. But it's still a petroleum product, still an inefficient 1970 engine, and still a 35-year-old machine potentially needing a full restoration.

Another option is to take that 1970 muscle car, and drop in a modern engine from the same vehicle family. For example, you could take your vintage Chevelle and mount a new Corvette engine in it. Not cheap, and not as clean as possible, but still much better than 1970. Such engine swaps are legal in California as long as the engine is newer than the chassis.

And I beg to differ with your suggestion for a 1970s diesel car. There's no "muscle" in these machines whatsoever. You may be thinking of 1980s-vintage Mercedes turbo diesels, which can offer decent performance if they are in top condition, and they are THE best cars for running biodiesel or straight veggie oil fuels. You can also kit them out with wider wheels and tires to make them look a bit more muscled up.

Still another option Lucy should consider is a modern Volkswagen with a TDI diesel engine. If Lucy's husband is enamored of the new "green" cars and yet craves a muscle car, this could be the best compromise. The TDI engines are super efficient, run great on biodiesel, and there are tons of aftermarket performance parts available for them (bigger injectors, performance chips, suspension and brake parts, etc.). You can't buy one new in California at the moment due to particulate pollution regs. You can buy a used one, though scarcity means they hold their value quite well (expect to pay close to $20k). Best of all, you can get them in a variety of shapes: Jetta wagon or sedan, hatchback Golf, even the New Beetle comes with a TDI motor.

And if you have the coin, you could also drop one of these TDI engines into something else...say, a 1970 MGB convertible. THAT would be cool.

Anyway, this is an elemental question that many of us struggle with in car-crazed California, so thanks for bringing it forward.

by anwrnews at 3:00 PM on 28 Apr 2005

Would you reconsider?

Umbra,

I wonder if you considered the amount of energy required to manufacture a new vehicle and the pollution and carbon emissions THAT process produces in comparison to retrofitting an older vehicle. Building a new vehicle further depletes our mineral resources, where retrofitting an existing vehicle might actually prevent the incessant growth of our nations junk yards. And in terms of the cost involved in making an older vehicle more eco-friendly...shouldn't we be willing to pay if it means that we'll be conserving resources and energy and minimizing pollution to some extent? To me, the retrofitting option seems a bit more sustainable all around!

by araster at 9:24 PM on 28 Apr 2005

Electric "muscle" cars!

Lucy & Umbra:

You should check out these guys who run the electric vehicle segment of the drag-racing community. They build cars to race (I've seen 'em!) but they also build electric cars to motor around in. A guy named Ottmar Ebenhoech in Palo Alto has retrofitted a Porsche 914 to run on batteries, and it's a thing of beauty.

They've also made electric "muscle cars" out of Jeeps and motorcycles.

Depending on how much time (and $$) you have, you might be able to get one of them to give you some good advice. They're all extremely helpful people.

Some links:

SuckAmps EV Racing: http://www.suckamps.com/index.php?page=projects

National Electric Drag Racing:

http://www.nedra.com/

There's also an Electric Vehicle Discussion List:
Electric Vehicle Discussion List at
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu

Otmar's amazing Porsche:

http://evcl.com/914/

It might not work for you this time around, but it's something for your husband to keep in mind.

Happy Birthday!

by ninshubur at 11:16 PM on 28 Apr 2005

Umbra, Umbra, Umbra...

Umbra-

First, it can be done. Second, when you buy a new thrifty car it also contains new energy and pollution (the energy and pollution associated with its production), an old car has paid, if you wil, its energy and pollution debt. By taking a paid off energy/pollution car and cleaning it up you may be making a real plus. And which is cooler, a Civic or a 1957 Willys?

Googling "alternative fuel" and "hot rod" I got 1,300 sites. The founder of Real Goods used to drive an electric powered replica of a Porsche Spyder, many kit cars are electrified, there is a company in Canada restoring and converting Reanault Dauphines if you want to go cute instead of hot. There are alt fuel dragsters, race cars, land speed record cars, planes. Leno's tank engine powered hot rod could run bio-diesel. And the whole project could be a blast for a couple.

http://www.gremlinx.com/HydrogenGremlin.htm

http://www.matadorcoupe.com/classifieds.htm

http://www.alternatefuelsracing.com/

http://www.ecotrekker.com/

http://www.vogelbilt.com/

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/083.html

http://megawattmotorworks.com/

www.Centraliacollege.com

www.eco-outlaws.com

http://www.acpropulsion.com/

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/progs/related2alt.cgi?41

http://66.218.37.153/

http://www.godspeopleracing.org/update.html

http://www.ahanw.org/buyonline/

http://www.beaconite.com/ngvm/racing.html

http://www.ohler.com/ev/spyder/index.html

http://www.clean-air.org/Hydrogen%20Cobra%20Story/Hydrogen%20Cobra.htm

http://www.truckworld.com/4x4-OffRoad/96-1957TurboWillys/1957TurboWillys.html

http://www.zonk.com/hotrod.htm

gabh an latha Richard Eugene, OR, USA

by rglater at 1:00 AM on 29 Apr 2005
[ Parent ]

projects a bourgeois eco-image ...wtf?

FINALLY!! Proof, in writing, of what is wrong with the environmental movement right now. The problem, of course, is the environmentalists image obsession. This focus on having the right image is not about environmentalism, it's about elitism. It's elitist because "projecting a bourgeois eco-image" is extremely expensive, and inaccessible for most people. On top of that, environmentalists give off an attitude that one is not truly eco-friendly unless one dresses and acts bourgeois & eco-friendly. People who can't afford the image are turned off by this attitude. In fact, "boo-jee" (derived from bourgeois) is an insult in many communities. In places like Wisconsin, there is a huge rift between the urban-intellectual environmentalists and the rural hunter/fisher conservationists. This disconnect is dividing the environmental movement, making it especially vulnerable to WMC -WI Manufacturers & Commerce, ie-Weapons of Mass Construction. Wisconsin's enviro laws are being rolled back, and Wisconsin is losing it's environmental heritage, all because people who care about the environment are divided. To be successful, the bourgeois environmentalists need to stop alienating the people who are at the front line of the assault on the environment. We need to realize that K-Mart wearing, poor, uneducated, oil-dripping-car-driving people can be just as environmental as we are. We need to be inclusive, not exclusive. Only by building the numbers in our ranks can we become more successful in this fight.

by melissa at 8:03 AM on 29 Apr 2005

But cars can be common ground...

I agree with Melissa to some extent, but what better way to "meet in the middle" than to hot-rod an earth-friendly car? What better way to stake out common ground with the NASCAR constituency? Consorting in a Prius, in my opinion, only furthers the green movement's elitist leanings (just look at the car's popularity in Hollywood). Not everyone can afford a Prius, but almost anybody can afford to hop-up a 20-year-old Mercedes and run it on biodiesel.

I also want to echo the argument that greening a used car may have a lower overall impact on the planet than buying a new one. For one thing, by using local mechanics and parts suppliers, you are helping your local economy. And you can also engage in reuse-recycling by using used parts whenever possible from junkyards, your local classifieds, CraigsList, etc., etc.

P.S. -- Here's another great electric car site, with kits for converting the Porsche 914 (and Volkswagen Rabbit) to battery power:

http://www.electroauto.com/index.html

by anwrnews at 10:26 AM on 29 Apr 2005
[ Parent ]

ditto

I think that eco-izing a hot-rod is a great idea. I'm all for wrapping environmentalism around all culture and products, not one niche area of our culture wrapping itself around environmentalism.

by melissa at 11:28 AM on 29 Apr 2005
[ Parent ]

Or the really simple solution

Get your hubby a Prius if you can afford it. I don't know any eco-head who wouldn't want one, and it's the highest rated (94%) car as far as owner satisfaction is concerned.

--
SUVs are squared-out minivans.

by MikeCapone at 1:03 PM on 30 Apr 2005

AC-150 electric motor and controller

Get this 150 Kw (200hp) electric motor/controller and some lithium batteries and you will not have to compromise on performance.

http://www.acpropulsion.com/

They have conversion kits - the electric motor should bolt onto the clutch with a conversion plate.

Stephen Gloor Perth Western Australia

by Ender at 3:34 AM on 02 May 2005

a vroom of one's own

While buying stuff used is generally a good idea, it's not true with cars. If you do a full life cycle analysis, you'll see that emissions from car use have a far greater environmental impact than the one-time materials used in manufacture. The single best thing you can do, if you must drive a car, is to own a fuel-efficient one. And, leaving the lunacy of SUVs aside, newer cars are more fuel-efficient than old ones.

Also, what's wrong with the bourgeois sense of self-satisfaction that come from owning a hybrid car? It seems silly to say that one shouldn't use an environmentally friendly technology/product/service unless everyone can afford it. This would mean that none of us should use green cleaning products, recycled content paper, or even CFLs. How would it benefit the poor or the planet to forego these products?

by Shalini Ramanathan at 6:47 AM on 03 May 2005

A Vroom With a View...

At http://cut20.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_archive.html you will find my intentions of a totally exciting vroomer. When the Solomon Technologies products are finally licensed and sold in the US, persons like myself and the reader will be able to retrofit nearly any muscle type car with an electric transaxle. Though fitting it with air conditioning, power steering and power brakes will still take a little engineering, it's not beyond reach to create something unique while remaining green.

What I especially like about this amalgam is the combination of ideas to create something that was never done in the first place... a car-like five-seater that serves as a truck and a convertible... all-in-one. And it's hard to beat the solar capabilities of a silicone impregnated tonneau cover (though JC Whitney doesn't offer these in their catalog, to date). Dream on Americans... we can do this.

JD & Kelley Howell of Eugene, OR visit us: Cut20.blogspot.com

by Howell Haus at 7:48 AM on 11 Jan 2007

GM Volt

Detroit has a plugin serial hybrid muscle car. Probably will never be manufactured though.

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/01/gm_unve...

But for your husband you need a classic muscle car with a plugin electric system powering the first 40 miles. He can look cool, sound cool (with a vroom synthesizer plugged into the sound system), and actually fire up the big gas guzzler and burn rubber once in awhile.

The electric motor and batteries would power 90% of driving and save 90% of fuel use! It would belt drive the rear end with an electric clutch to disengage the electric motor when the big block fire breathing planet killer motor is engaged.

A big plus would be that the gas guzzler motor would not burn up from commuting. And it could be tuned really radically in a way that would vastly increase the power like race cars are tuned.

Street cars are very hard to drive if they are souped up to racing standards. But this street car would operate very nicely in electric mode.

Now maybe one of the famous hotrod builders of teevee fame will actually come out with a conversion kit of this type? It's long overdue. And with these guys cost is not an issue. Hotrods are the (trogolodyte)male equivalent of jewelry.

A 40 hp electric motor coupled with 2000 dollars worth of Altairnano batteries ought to do the electric commuting part of the job.

The other great feature is that the car will hold its ever increasing value as a classic muscle car and actually be justifiable as an investment (If you choose a rare car). The electric feature can be removed at auction time. And the big motor and tranny will remain fairly pristine.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 8:36 AM on 11 Jan 2007

The comments of Grist users reflect the opinions of those individuals only, and do not necessarily reflect the viewpoints of Grist, its staff, its board members, their psychotherapists, or their aestheticians. Got it?

A Vroom of One's Own

On whether to eco-retrofit an old car